A Banjoist's Guide To Marketing with Chris Coole

[00:00:00] Rosalyn: Hello and welcome to Refocus Our guest today is Chris. Cool. Since falling in love with the sound of folk and early country music at the age of 17, you could loosely divide Chris Cool's 30 year career as a full-time musician into three eras.

10 years as a street and Subway busker. 10 years playing bluegrass residencies around Toronto's bar scene and 10 years touring internationally, both solo and with the likes of the Lone Samami String Band, the David Franci Band and the Foggy Hogtown Boys. In that time, he's become known as leading voice on the Claw, hammerer style banjo.

This has led to plane as a collaborator, sideman, or producer on over 200. Recordings, including John Reisman, Natalie McMaster. Ben Winship. Sylvia Tyson.

Chris is a sought after teacher of both Band Joe guitar and songwriting at workshops and festivals across Canada, the US, and Europe. He's also produced a popular series of online workshops as well as an instructional dvd. Welcome, Chris. How you doing?

[00:00:55] Chris: I'm doing great. Roses, nice to see you.

[00:00:57] Rosalyn: So our, topic today is marketing. Which I feel like is not something you and I have, talked about before. But It's something I've been really interested in hearing a little bit of your journey on. I follow your recent. Emergence onto social media and you have what I personally consider to be one of the best email marketing newsletters that is out there. And you've been, from the pandemic. And onward have been like an very impactful presence online So, my first question to you would be Was there a shift during the pandemic for you and how you decided to interact with your audience and, and your, your community?

[00:01:43] Chris: Well thanks for having me to talk about this. It's funny I was thinking about this this morning and it's nice that you asked me because I don't think of myself as being especially good at what you're wanting to talk to me about. And I think other people might relate to that.

I don't think any of us think that we're all that good at that stuff. And it's very awkward. Of course. It's not why we got into playing music in the first place, but it's, a reality. So I just thought that was interesting. So yeah, my, gigs dried up and I had to find another way to sort of make my way in music.

I was really lucky. on a nu number of different levels during the pandemic I was really set up in a way that I don't think a lot, a lot of people were partly where I was in my career. I've been doing this, I'm 50 now, I just turned 50 and I've been doing this full-time since I got outta high school.

So, over 30 years now. So I was fairly well known already sort of in my, little world. I've been, been just sort of, keeping at it for a long time. I was also fairly well known as a teacher. I've always taught, like I've been teaching since I was 20 years old. And I had been teaching online for five or six years before the pandemic started, and.

Just some things, like I literally just updated all my computer stuff cuz I'd got into video editing the year before or just, I realized I wanted to get into that. And so I just bought like a really good desktop computer with a good monitor and thinking I was gonna be doing more video editing.

You know, Better mics and better speakers and everything. And the pandemic happened and I was sort of ready to roll. I'd already had an ethernet cable into my computer. So I was like, I knew I had really fast internet. I knew how to teach online.

I was all set up for it. I a good camera. And I know so many great musicians that are like maybe in their twenties who are sort of just starting out, but because they just haven't put in as much time and just sort of rambled around as much and exposed themselves to people at teaching at camps and everything. People didn't know them as teachers, so they didn't know to seek them out. But I, I sort of got sought out to some degree. And I also put myself out there. The, then the other weird thing that changed, and again, this happened the month before.

In February, 2020, I joined social media for the first time in my entire life. I'd never had a Facebook account and I'd never had an Instagram account ever. And I had been, for about the year before that, I'd sort of taken over working on Lone and ACEs. Page and that was my introduction to social media.

So I had been sort of slowly doing it and at that point, after working on the loan, so make social media stuff, I realized, oh, I realized what it was. I didn't really get it before. And I was like, ah, I really can't not be doing this at this point. I've waited long enough and by that point not having social media was like not having a telephone in the seventies or something.

It just didn't make any sense anymore. So I joined and then obviously we all know what happened a month later.

[00:04:34] Rosalyn: I wanted to ask you specifically about that because I feel like you and. Frank Evans were like the last two holdouts on earth that didn't have social media.

I don't know if it was a coordinated effort or coincidence,

[00:04:47] Chris: I started before him and then I remember talking to him and being like, look, dude, you sort of have to do this.

[00:04:52] Rosalyn: I remember. First post, I'm like, cool. Just broke the internet. He's on it. He's out here now. But you really did like emerge onto social media with grace and poise and intelligence in a way that it was nice to, to see your take on how to approach social media.

[00:05:12] Chris: thank you. again, I felt, I feel like I was in a good place the way I came into it because, I wasn't unaware of it. Like I'd heard people talking about it and I knew what the pitfalls, one of the main reasons that I'd never been on it wasn't like I was too cool for school.

It was sort of the opposite. I was always afraid, I know what my ego's like and I was afraid that it would just suck up too much of my time and potentially not, I wasn't really afraid that it would bring up like some dark side in me or anything, but just sort of like become too important to me and I just didn't want to go there.

[00:05:44] Rosalyn: well, usually high up on people's, list of things to quit. Quite often now where, folks are saying, oh, I, I'm giving up social media for lender, or, my news resolution is to spend less time on it. So, I can see why for someone, You who, does so much and you're creating all the time, that it's kind of like a scary possible thing that can distract you from, the work that you're, doing.

did you wrestle with it at all or did it seem.

[00:06:09] Chris: No, because the time I joined, I, I ha like I would've been screwed like it was my total connection. Like it became my job, instantly, like the next month it was like, oh, everything I was doing. I mean, I do have a, have an email list. But I really, I wasn't active on my email list at that time.

It's a funny thing, I started an email list Back in like the early two thousands me and Aaron Marshall sort of had a, had an email list that we'd started building and it was a good one and I, and I built it over the years. And I remember sometime in around. early 2000 tens or something.

I remember the roommate, I lived with, I sent out an email to my email list and he was like, oh man, it's hilarious. You still use an email list. Everything's on Facebook now. Like email lists aren't really a thing anymore. And I'd sort of like, when he told me that I sort of took it to heart, but I wasn't ready to join Facebook.

But I. Gave up on my email list for a good long time and like I'd send the odd thing out, but like up to then I would put out a monthly email for a long time, but I'd actually sort of stopped. and then, when I got into social media, I started listening to a lot of podcasts about being an independent musician.

Like there's that a CD baby. He's got a very good podcast it's great. And you know, I started listening to that cause I, I sort of wanted to get caught up on how it worked now. I mean, I knew how to do gigs. I knew how to play I was always promoting myself. Like, a big part of being a musician is promoting yourself. So I was always into, making posters and like, I, I got into to using Photoshop pretty early. just so I could be more in control of my own sort of image.

So I was, ready for that aspect of it.

[00:07:47] Rosalyn: what made you then, Do that pivot back to email marketing

[00:07:51] Chris: Well, because I, I'd heard at like after about a year of being so focused on social media, I started listening and, all the sort of gurus in that world were like, Build an email list. You have to build an email list because social media changes and you don't have any control over your audience on social media.

It's great when it's working, but it can change and it could change at any time. the example, they always give us TikTok. It's like, TikTok is awesome. I don't personally do TikTok, but talk's great if you're good at it and if you're using it, but like we're seeing right now TikTok could be.

That could be outlawed in North America and then all your TikTok fans are gone. So like the whole thing though, the, I was surprised, but the whole mantra was like, build an email that's building in-law was, I was like, oh, I've been doing that since like 20 years. I've been doing that and I still had it.

So I started building it again and I started doing this, getting back into the the monthly email thing and I try to only send one email at a month. I'm sort of religious about that. It just happens once, and I'm not like overwhelming them with things, although that's not the strategy that, that, if you listen to a lot of the, again, the sort of the movers and shakers in that sort of independent musician self-marketing thing, they'll tell you.

It's like, oh, you should be sending an email out like e every week and like, tell 'em about everything. But you have to do all this stuff in a way that that feels right.

[00:09:14] Rosalyn: Yeah, knowing your audience, and, imagining what your ideal. Email reader is going to be feeling at the time. And what works for you. Like the neat thing about your newsletter, is that has a lot of components to it, which I find really fun.

Can you please tell the listeners about from the horse's mouth,

[00:09:32] Chris: Well, I have a lot of, as I say, I've been a teacher for a long time, so a lot of people on my email list are. There's a lot of banjo players on there, like, people who've taken classes from me over the years or workshops and whatnot. So one thing I wanted to do, and obviously you can't just.

Always be asking for things so realistically, everybody knows that you are just self-promoting and ultimately wanting to sell people stuff, but there has to be some reason for them to sort of beyond just wanting to know where you play and wanting to know what you selling them that month.

it's nice to have, something and. One thing I thought I could give was at least I could like do a tab and a video for all the banjo players out there who, who might be interested. So once a month I arrange a tune. It's usually a traditional tune and I do a tablet or talk a little bit about the tune, but on the video that I record, I wear a horse's mask.

And I don't have a especially good reason for doing that. I just thought it would be funny. And I don't know, make it a little bit, I don't know. I, I like things to be weird. I just sort of dig it. So I wear this horse's mask. so I call it straight from the horse's mouth, and it's just like this sort of once a month thing, and I think people get a kick out it. It's a little weird. And when you're teaching it's tricky because like you're in this position of like, you're the expert and.

You gotta make sure that doesn't go to your head. And I think maybe wearing the horse's head is a good way of showing the people that I'm not really taking myself all that seriously

[00:11:04] Rosalyn: I think that's a really point that I'll just echo about giving back. Cuz you know, I we have product to sell, we have tickets to sell.

We have, check out this, check out that. And it's it's really great to have identified that this is a thing that you can give back to your audience and, community and have that kind of two-way, transaction there. I don't recommend everyone going by a horse mask right now.

Find your own thing.

but you know, if you're gonna take anything, that's a great thing to keep in mind. Is, is how you can also, Give something, you know, Whatever that looks like for you,

[00:11:36] Chris: gonna be different for different people, but also I think, I mean that's, that's sort of common knowledge too. That's sort of basics. Internet stuff, so, It's like, we all know that. So I think you have to be really extra. when you're doing something to, to sort of give your audience something back, it's really easy for them to see through it if it's hollow, right?

Like if it's shallow and you're just giving to get which I mean there is an element to that. I mean, we are ultimately doing a job, but just try to be creative about it, I guess. so, It doesn't just seem like it's totally obvious that all you're doing is checking a box that says, only ask 10% of the time on your, you know, you don't want it to look like that.

[00:12:18] Rosalyn: In your newsletter you also get fairly personal as well. You're not just all business and I think that There's like a little vulnerability or something like that in there as well that's like authentic and I think that it's, a neat touch that not a whole lot of folks do. Maybe they save that for social media or something, I'm not sure. But is that something that, that you think about?

[00:12:39] Chris: It's not something I think about. I, I, but I think I've sort of like, I've, I've been working with the book The Artists Way recently and I'm not sure whether it's exactly for me, but I've been doing the morning pages thing and it's hilarious because it's like a therapy session.

I'm just writing about myself for like three pages every morning. And anyways, I think that's reflected in my music in general. Like I am pretty comfortable with sharing stuff in my music and I don't know, I'm pretty used to being. With, stuff like that. So I don't, think about, like, I'd never really thought specifically about the email list being personal, but I guess maybe it is.

But that's just the way I, sorta roll. speaking of the email list, I should give a shout out to Banz. I've been using them. cuz they're involved in sort of another thing I did Over the pandemic, but Banzo, that's what, that's the website service I use and they're based in Canada and their email function is great for being able to format really nice looking emails and with graphics and hyperlinks and all that type of thing.

[00:13:36] Rosalyn: what was the campaign you were just talking about that you did with them over the pandemic?

[00:13:40] Chris: Well, so one of the things I did, I mean beyond I've, I've been doing teaching private lessons forever, but then I started doing group workshops. And I started doing these group workshops Over Zoom. And they were going really well. I had had really good attendance and it was, I would do one ev about every couple months.

And they were sort of my main thing financially which, what was keeping me sort of, afloat at the time. And the cool thing was I was able to, after I would do the workshop, I would put a fair amount of time into doing like a, there was a visual like workshop, but then I would sort of write a, booklet for the workshop.

So I sort of had this product basically at the end of it. Like I had this, this recorded workshop plus some tablet chair books and like some written stuff and some other videos. And it's really easy.

Sell stuff. Like, that's my, one of my favorite things about Banz is how easy they make it to sell your music and in this case you're merchandise. So I was able to, basically, every time I did one of these workshops, it was really quite accessible for me to put it up as a piece of merchandise.

On my website. So I have now 13 of them that are for Salem. They're essentially like 13 courses that people can buy the interface is super easy for them to buy it. And that was really helpful. And I never would've, done that had I not been forced through the pandemic to sort of think outside the box a little.

[00:15:03] Rosalyn: I mean, it's great that Banzo will provided the tool, especially since they don't take a commission, which is just awesome. they hit some like, amazing number recently.

I can't it was, but it was like a hundred million or something in sales for, for artists. Like just for the artists and that they take no commission on. So, yeah, I think that that's a really generous move that they didn't necessarily have to do. That creates some, good faith with, with all us music folks and neat that you were able to kind of maximize in like a slightly unconventional Yes.

Lots of people were teaching online. Yes. Lots of people are selling merch online, but I think that that idea of, doing the like modules in the way that, that you did is, is maybe you weren't the first one to think of it, but, it was certainly a creative way, I think, to use the banzo tools that were there.

you've put out a, a ton of really different types of video. just the locations alone, you had a whole series on in the canoe, or is it canoe or a boat? It was.

[00:15:56] Chris: That was a

[00:15:57] Rosalyn: It was a boat, The most recent one was three guys in a, in a church, I'm gonna say it wrong, but

[00:16:02] Chris: it's called Three Men Playing Old Time Music in a Rather Chilly 13th Century church in England

[00:16:10] Rosalyn: Rolls right off the tongue. Yeah. but you've also kind of produced your own. kind of fancy looking kind of official videos for your songs as well.

are you doing all of this yourself or are you working with, with the team when you're doing this?

[00:16:24] Chris: No, never a team. the videos that you see that look really professional and the camera work is like, that's Andrew Collins, who's one of my oldest friends and band mate. he also got into doing video at around the same time, and he got to the point where he saw almost like, well, he is like a professional videographer now.

I just got to the point where I can edit and take video for myself. But some of those videos, yeah, I've done, I've definitely, like, I love editing video actually. And I've definitely, some of the videos that I've done for my own songs have. Myself, but he's done, I think he's done three or four for me.

[00:16:58] Rosalyn: Has that been helpful you're putting out a lot of, stuff. is it a conscious thing? do you have like a schedule?

[00:17:04] Chris: over covid, me and John Showman, who I play with, we were doing a video every week. Every Friday we put a video out and we Sort of had it really scheduled. Then we, when we started touring last February, again, it got really hard to keep up with that schedule and we just sort of, I got back to booking again and it was just like, couldn't keep up.

We're trying to do that again now because we've got a album coming out in the fall, so we're trying to do that. It was really helpful putting. Those fiddle and banjo videos at, at every Friday. It was like, as when we got back on the road, so many people came up to us and like, Hey, we heard about you from, we watched those videos every Friday.

I think the trick is, I mean, again, this is really mostly stuff I've picked up from, listening to the experts, quote unquote. is consistency. So you, it, if you listen to some people, they'll tell you, oh, you have to be like doing stories like at least once a day and you've gotta be posting three or four times a week.

And that might be true for some people, but that's not gonna feel right for everybody. But try to get on. Some sort of consistency. I'm out of it and you'll fall out of it. I'm, I'm out of, I'm just getting myself sort of back into a flow for it. And I, I was sort of out of it for about six months.

I was very inconsistent. And for me that's looks like maybe one thing a week, like for maybe a couple things on Instagram. I try to get a video every week. that works for me. And I also love, like the thing, one of the things I loved about getting into doing that it forces me to work up new material and that was definitely tricky over covid to like Just get yourself sort of revved up to be constantly working on new stuff. That was helpful for that. And I still find it, I still find that's a, that's a nice sort of side aspect of it. that's a nice thing cuz if you're only putting out like maybe one or two things a week, if you sort of try to get the quality a little bit higher, that means you can force yourself to sort of work on your craft, which is music.

And that can be sort of a nice positive side to it.

[00:19:01] Rosalyn: Yeah, that's finding that balance is I think something that, folks can struggle with between the creative and maybe like the expectation And somewhere in between is like what feels is the path of least resistance somewhere in there. when you hear from the experts that are saying, yeah, post every day.

do more, do more. Be out there, be, be engaging all the time. maybe there's guilt, I don't know what the word is, where you kind of feel like, oh, I have to be doing more.

I have to be doing more. Which, some folks can need you to kind of creating some. Bullshit content that's

not, you

[00:19:31] Chris: I I, I think that's, I, I'm sort of in a place right now where I'm, I'm just trying to figure out where I stand on it because like I mean, it is sort of a type of pollution at a certain point, some of the crap that you see, and it's like it, but it does work because like I see bands that are posting constantly and I look and I'm like, oh, that's like, it's really like nothing that they've done, but I still looked at it and they're still on my mind.

And that's sort of what advertising is. And essentially, that maybe is all social media is anymore anyways. But yeah, it's, it's, it's hard to, hard to figure it out cause I like. On one hand, you wanna be there, but just the haze of social media is a bit of a problem in our society, and you don't wanna start becoming part of that problem.

Right. Again, it's all a de delicate balance that, balance point's gonna be different for everybody.

[00:20:22] Rosalyn: But I like that you brought creativity into it and kind of used it as a, spark or as an excuse, maybe to like, do something creative,

[00:20:29] Chris: I feel like that's, I, I haven't figured it out yet, but that's, for me, if I ever do figure it out, that's gonna be a big component of it. And that has been up to now too, is just try to make it artistic. So you still feel, even though you're doing this stuff, you still feel like it's an.

Of yourself as an artist in whatever way. It doesn't, not, you know, of music, but also maybe visually and, all we're doing as artists is trying to let people know who we are, right. And so that's sort of, you can imagine how that can, tie into it as well.

[00:21:01] Rosalyn: do you have any final thoughts any nuggets that we haven't unearthed of some thoughts that you've had around this topic?

[00:21:07] Chris: my motto's always been just. Keep trying. me and my friend Ivan Rosenberg. That was a sort of an ongoing joke. It's like so often you just keep putting stuff out and sometimes it feels like it's not going anywhere. And but you just gotta keep trying and don't quit.

Keep trying and don't quit. That's like, the secret to music.

[00:21:25] Rosalyn: Tell me a little bit about where people can, find you if they're interested in, in checking out your newsletter. How can they sign up?

[00:21:32] Chris: the aforementioned newsletter, you can sign up on my website which is just chris cool.com, c o o l e. Like the weather with an e, as my father like to say. You can sign up for the website there and find out about my gigs. I mostly tour with a band called Lonesome Ace String Band, which I will be in about half an hour, getting in a van and driving around with them for two weeks.

So, yeah, that's where to find me. And I do still teach some amount of private lessons, although I teach about maybe six days, a, a month or something. So I do that and then I also do the workshops, and then I also teach at actual real workshops around different camps and stuff like that.

[00:22:09] Rosalyn: Fantastic. And we'll, link to all the stuff that you mentioned in the notes and good luck on the road there.

[00:22:15] Chris: Appreciate

[00:22:15] Rosalyn: Yeah, thanks for being here, Chris.

[00:22:17] Chris: Thanks, Ross. It's great to see you.