On the Air Pt. 2 - The Power of Local Radio on Community with Kwende Kefentse

RFU41 - Kwende Kefentse
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[00:00:27] Rosalyn: Welcome to ReFolkUs. Today, our guest is Kwende Kefentse. Kwende is the Executive Director of CKCU FM. His 20 plus year career bridges the worlds of creative practice, cultural industries, civic leadership, and city building. In his former job as Cultural Industries Development Officer for the City of Ottawa, he led the development of Ottawa's renewed Action Plan for Arts, Heritage, and Culture, and the Ottawa Music Strategy, among other critical citywide cultural initiatives.

Kwende serves on the boards of the Ottawa Music Industry Coalition, Ottawa Film Office, Carleton University Art Gallery, and the Washington, D.C. based Music Policy Forum. Kwende has earned a Master's of Research from UCL's Bartlett School of Architecture focused on the spatial dynamics of cultural production in the music industry. As DJ mimetic of the Time Code Collective, his productions have received critical acclaim from international outlets like Vice Thump, Radio Nova, and Wax Poetics, and he's been an opening performer for luminaries like Nas and Barack Obama.

Please welcome Kwende Kefentse. Hello, Kwende.

[00:01:37] Kwende: Hello.

[00:01:38] Rosalyn: How are you doing?

[00:01:39] Kwende: I'm good. Thank you for having me. I'm really thankful to be here.

[00:01:43] Rosalyn: So thankful to get to speak with you. It's been a real pleasure to get to know the CKCU, community, through our podcast being broadcast on it. And it's been great to get to explore and get to learn a little bit more about the station. Can you tell me a little bit about how you started, your involvement in radio or, or, or specifically at CKCU?

[00:02:04] Kwende: You know, my involvement with the radio goes back a long way, partially because I'm a child of the 80s and radio was the predominant sort of medium at that time for things like how we got music and how we learned about the world. And so, you know, I grew up, you know, You know, listening to the radio a lot, and in particular through the emergence of hip hop culture, I got connected to community radio because at the time, and I'm dating myself here, of course, but there was only certain times of the day where you could hear hip hop.

And so you had to sort of orient yourself around those times if you wanted to be connected to the culture. So I would, Orient my sleep schedule around these radio shows that would come on between midnight and 5 a. m. And I would always be up, recording things and sort of getting connected to that community, you know through the radio And so it was always like an important component in my life when I first moved to ottawa, It was during a time period where radio was still, again, had a different role in society than it does now.

And so when I moved to Ottawa, I knew about some radio stations because I did a little bit of research and was like, Oh, I wonder what radio stations are out there that I could tap into. And I learned that because I was going to Carleton, that CKCU, Was a prominent community station out there. There were some shows that I understood that I knew a little bit about, mystic journey, which was a Friday night hip hop show, that I'd heard about DJ ducats.

and so when I first got to the school, I found out where the station was and I went there, and just, try to meet somebody. It was sort of like a random thing to do actually. But, later on, I ended up, volunteering at the station and DJing on some shows and that ended up, you know, getting my own show for a long time, DJing there on Saturday nights between eight and 10.

I did that spot for quite a long time, and then that spot became another show, and that was when I sort of migrated away from CKCU for a bit in terms of doing any regular volunteering. you know, all of that was going on in the early 2000s, I guess between 2005 and maybe 2010, maybe I had that show and was sort of like working that spot on the air.

And then, you know, other things happened. I started, you know, Working and doing other things still connected to the station in different ways, coming into DJ little sets here and there and stay connected to friends who had shows and so on. But, later on, I ended up joining the board of the station because when I saw that there was an opportunity to sort of, engage at that level and, you know, that was interesting to me as well to sort of just understand and learn sort of board leadership and these types of skills that would may have been in sort of like the more mid 2000s when I came back around to engage with the station in that way. I did a term and then I left again only to come back around in 2020. When the executive director role came up and, I wanted a change from the work I was doing at the City of Ottawa, and so I made the move to CKCU.

[00:05:00] Rosalyn: It's amazing to hear about the volunteerism and, like, the time and, and you've, like, really served this community. That's incredible to hear.

[00:05:08] Kwende: thank you. I, feel like it's a good way to spend time it was a really interesting way for me to learn about this place, because, whether it was tacit or, explicit, you know, I was learning about all of these different networks in the city and finding a place where I could connect myself to them or at least get some visibility into them so I could understand a bit better, you know, what was going on.

[00:05:29] Rosalyn: and now CKCU is coming up to its 50th year,

which is very impressive. You how has it persevered so long and, and, what's the

secret sauce to that?

[00:05:41] Kwende: It's such a great question. And it's something that I hope over the 50th year, we're going to get a lot of opportunities to reflect on it because it is really incredible. You know, when you think about it, like just even how few businesses period make it to 50 years so many businesses die in the first 20.

Years from the first 20 and the first 5. You know what I'm saying? When you think about all the businesses that start. And so, you know, this nonprofit entity, how it's been able to survive has been because it built a really deep connection with this community, right?

As this community was starting to, you know, evolve into itself, you know, in 1975, this community was widely different than it looks now, but the seeds of what is happening now, we're really planted at that time, and it's really interesting to see sort of the role of this organization, and how this community has grown, you know, one of the first things that happened when I got to the station is that, the station was just like chock full of paper, so much paper, like 50 years of paper in filing cabinets, in Tupperware, everywhere. And so you know, one of the things that we did was that we started digitizing all of these documents, and so through that process, you know, I was able to learn a lot because after it was digitized, I was just able to start reading it at my own leisure outside of the office and able to sort of just sort of start processing all the various things, people organizations, entities that have come through the station. You know, one of the most fascinating things is that CKCU in 1979, I think it was, started a magazine called Trans FM, which was like an alternative culture Magazine that CKCU developed and ran until 1996.

There's like, incredible articles in there and reflections like on this community and just all kinds of crazy advertisements and

it holds this really interesting mirror up to the community, sort of reflecting back on sort of what it was aspirationally.

In this time period. you know, you just got to see a lot of sort of like what the folks at that time were aspiring for this community. And now you get to see some of those fruits borne out sometimes we're asking the exact same questions we were asking back then. Sometimes you can see progress. Sometimes you can see that some things seem to have gone backwards or come around in different kinds of ways. But it's interesting to see all of that reflected in this, in this media network and that the medium of broadcasting, started this really interesting dynamic feedback process in this community.

[00:08:21] Rosalyn: There is something you, you previously mentioned about, listening to the radio and the way that people engage and the way that you would engage with radio, you know, waiting until a certain time to, to hear a show and From my own experience, we used to have like, little parties, listening parties when the show that we loved would come on and there's something so, Special, sacred, something about like that kind of synchronous, collective experience of broadcast in general that we sometimes get, I mean, we still have TV, we still have, whatever, the Super Bowl airs at the same time or the Oscar, whatever it is, but you know, we, less and less are we getting these kind of communal experiences of, of something.

And even though I know that, that, you know, radio is available online now, can you talk a little bit about, how you perceive the, the station's role in kind of bringing folks together or how it's changed?

[00:09:07] Kwende: Yeah, I mean, I think it's changed and I think it's changing. But I think a lot of that also has to do with the context of the community. And really sort of like, without scaling out and up too much, but really sort of like the state of the world, you know, and how all of that reflects on the community.

And I think that particularly after the pandemic. There has definitely been a sense of looking or seeking, you know, more connection with the places where we live, because that's where we were for the last however many years. I think we started to recognize that, all experience is local experience, ultimately, and that there's value in being able to connect to your local community in a deeper way and I don't think that that was the perspective for a long time. I think the perspective for a long time was really moving out towards, more and more outward looking global perspectives where people were really focusing on how to get to the world, not that folks aren't still trying to get to the world, but, I think that was a more predominant narrative at that time. I feel like at this point, folks really do want to focus more on local experiences and on connecting more deeply with where they are than sort of trying to connect with the world out there.

And for that reason, I think that. It's resonant that CKCU is turning 50 and that this broadcast medium, feels like folks are engaging with it more and I, the other thing that's really interesting about it is that we're in a technological age now where community broadcasters have some of the same tools and As, the biggest networks in the world, you know, we're all using the same stuff and so it means that like, you know, we can also take advantage of some of those strategies, some of those tools to be able to connect, to our local communities in more meaningful ways.

And I think that's something that's exciting that we're working on.

[00:11:00] Rosalyn: I feel like there's, especially recently, a trend that a lot of these kinds of, smaller stations or community stations are being bought up by larger corporations are being, you know, bought up and folded.

do you see. Maybe more importance or more focus now on campus radio because of that, because we're losing some of those smaller communities.

[00:11:25] Rosalyn: Yeah. Cause it's pervasive with newspaper and…

[00:11:27] Kwende: yeah, exactly. And it's still like, for me, like, you know, it doesn't, it's not, doesn't necessarily have to be like the campus community or what have you, but I think that paradigm is really sort of community owned and sort of like accountable to the local community.

I think that there's an increased importance on media that operates like that.

[00:11:45] Rosalyn: And then in relation to music specifically there's an obvious connection to the music industry to the live music industry, where do you see, the role, staying the same or where do you see it changing?

[00:11:56] Kwende: Well, I mean, some of what I've learned from being in this job is that, music industry recognizes that these types of organizations move the needle with people who really care about the music or the communities that they're trying to reach. And as I said before, I think what's also interesting is that. Organizations like this have the opportunity to sort of leverage the technology of the present to really put together a different kind of value proposition than maybe they had the ability to do before with the kind of human resources and, just sort of like budgetary scale that we're operating at.

And so like there's that component of it, but it's interesting to see the ways in which we're able to still be that sort of like that first point of growth for so many of these emerging businesses. and then for the established music industry, there's still that recognition that organizations like ours are really moving the needle.

And what's also interesting, particularly for a community like ours, which is like one of the larger cities and, and again, it's so, interesting the idea that there are so few places to really market to, local communities for a city that has like a million people, as you said, you know, what's really interesting is the recognition that, this is a really big market or a big enough market.

And I think we see it happening more and more now, that media companies are. Sort of saturated with places like Toronto and Montreal and Vancouver and now they're starting to look at places Like Ottawa, places like Hamilton, like these other cities and, there isn't a local institution like a CKCU or other sorts of community media institutions to fill that gap, it will definitely get filled.

By some corporate actor in the future. Like it's inevitable

Rosalyn: Have you felt like you've been impacted since social media in Canada has, or specifically meta is, has been disallowed to use traditional or use media sources, news has that impacted you folks? Are you still able to use social media in the same way?

Yeah, and it's, it's affected us, you know, definitely, I feel like It's affected whether real or perceived. It's affected our ability to connect to many of the audiences who care about us. And we have, you know, and obviously we had put resources into developing strategies for social media. So, you know, to be in a position where, Some of our biggest channels we are not able to use.

Okay. Like, you know, that's annoying and challenging for sure. And it forces us to rethink all of those strategies about how we market, how we connect with the audience. And I think in the long term, it will contribute to resilience. but in the short term, as we put it all together, it's a really challenging thing to navigate where, essentially the biggest social media networks, where we have the most digital connections with our audience.

You know, we're not able to leverage that. We're not able to leverage that for fundraising. We're not able to leverage that for all kinds of things, which, you know, are to the benefit, not just of our organization, but of our community. And so, like I said, it's their short term pain. And if we can weather it, and figure out a strategy for how to develop and maintain, you know, a stronger connection with our constituents. I think that will be better for it.

[00:15:20] Rosalyn: do you see radio and, and radio DJs as having the same role as like tastemakers in the music industry, tastemakers in the community?

[00:15:30] Kwende: Yeah, I do. I definitely do. Again, particularly among those who care enough that they want to share. and I found particularly from my experience in the music industry that the industry still takes its lead from those types of people and from the folks who, again, who care enough to use their time to share what they feel is The highest quality music that they can find with their community.

I've seen so much in terms of music that started. On community radio where the first time I've ever heard it played was on community radio where I've seen these artists on the biggest stages. Right. and, you know, that matters.

And I also feel like it's not just about. how big an artist gets. So like about being on the biggest stages, but I think the creators and tastemakers in places like CKCU FM have such a huge impact on how, sort of working musicians can make a living, because it's ultimately about building a connection with the community is how you make a market.

And. that's the role that so many of these DJs and presenters play, not just in the music industry, but in the local business community as well. Because I think we underestimate how important the real or perceived person to person connection is. I mean, these parasocial relationships that we develop with the media are just natural.

You know what I'm saying? Like we just feel better about whatever's being shown to us when there's somebody who we feel like we trust. And when, and when that trust is based in a common place and context. And so, just having that for your music is something that. the industry could only hope for their wildest dreams.

That's the best that, that they could hope for.

[00:17:20] Rosalyn: And, to mention that, we still get royalties, when your music's played,

[00:17:24] Kwende: And we pay. That's the other thing, we pay! We definitely pay and we pay at a better rate than Spotify.

[00:17:34] Rosalyn: That means so much right now when, when obviously, only the, you know, that top 1 percent or something are making any money from it.

[00:17:42] Kwende: That's it. I think, one of the funny things is that it's kind of harder to appreciate this in some ways in the Canadian context because of just how huge this country is and how hard it is to travel in this country, right? But if you're a Canadian musician who's able, To move around, particularly if you have, like, if you're, like, in East Ontario, where there are a few places where you can move around, or West Quebec, or, like, in that Vancouver, Victoria, et cetera, space.

And, like, again, in these sort of, like, urbanized clusters. And then if you're able to move. Into places like the States or Europe or what have you, you realize how important having these local media voices are because like I said, they're the ones who are going to ensure they are able to sell tickets in that community. Because they're the ones who are really maintaining the enthusiasm about the music that they're sharing.

And so, unless you have that air support budget To get on the front page of Spotify or to get your music placed in a film or television show or something like that. If you're like a working touring musician, which is the majority of musicians, that's how it happens.

And it's the same way for local businesses as well. If you're a local business, you don't have a Superbowl commercial. You know what I'm saying? Like, what you, what you have are these localized networks to get your products sold or to, you know, connect with the community who cares about what you're making or selling.

[00:19:03] Rosalyn: yeah. And then also the. demographics as well of the, listenership I'm guessing by, by default of, being a, campus radio and being, having that attachment to a university that, that there is like a younger demographic listening than you might, you know, encounter on, some other stations.

[00:19:21] Kwende: for sure. and this is the other thing which has been great about just operating in this era, that it's easier to track these things and sort of get a better feel for like who's actually listening. There are more tools to be able to understand that. And yeah, like we trend a lot younger than you would think for a terrestrial linear radio station.

And not only that, we have a huge on demand library of content that goes back way, way back. and it's interesting, like, we had started doing that a long time before. that was available on community media and even on other kinds of media, you know, satellite or what have you in terms of just being able to go back and in archives of content.

So yeah, there is a wide demographic gamut of folks. and obviously there are still folks who are listening and there are still folks who are broadcasting from the day the station started. And so there's that as well, which is very, very unique in terms of, having those kinds of deep roots that have transcended generations.

Like, you know, there are people who know CKCU because their parents listened to CKCU every day, and then they started listening to CKCU. And so like, you know, these kinds of deep relationships and communities are part of what makes organizations like this so resilient and able to sort of weather.

All of these various changes and hopefully be able to put ourselves in a position now to be able to leverage all of that stuff to put together a progressive vision for the future of how people connect to each other in this community.

[00:20:51] Rosalyn: On the, on the topic of that kind of. Data collection, recently there was a study put out by Women in Music Canada representation on Canadian radio so, you know, there was some.

Very shocking, numbers put there that showed that counting the amount of, plays by female and, and non binary artists. And I, I believe it was, it was primarily commercial radio you know, our, Organization is, in the, in the folk genre which we define very broadly and, and, you know, I think that probably the closest that we get to mention in, in there is, is around the adult contemporary genre But just from your own observations, do you think that, if that study was done for like campus and community radio, do you think we would be seeing a similar skew of the numbers or do you feel like there's, there's an effort for more gender representation when it comes to campus and community radio?

Yeah.

[00:21:45] Kwende: Hmm. It's a good question.

[00:21:47] Rosalyn: I mean, and then we have also, like, race and, and other identification

[00:21:52] Kwende: race and ethnicity and these components of it, right? Like, I mean, I think by virtue of being mission based organizations. That focus on at least in our case non commercial and sort of non traditional as well as, local and think that by virtue of having those kinds of missions that yes, it would skew more towards having a higher sort of degree of representation from groups that are considered minorities in society.

That having been said, I think that organizations are also reflective of the places that they're in. Right. And so, you know, Despite the fact that there may be that kind of representation in the music that is being played. Is it that kind of representation in terms of the people who are playing the music?

Maybe not, you know what I'm saying? And so that's where I feel like, yeah, there's opportunities to sort of grow there and, and I don't say that to be overly critical. I say that just to say that the process of how communities change demographically is, is, is important.

slow, right? and it's challenging for any organization to sort of keep up with the pace of change in the communities that they're in. And I think there has to be, a deliberate effort to do that. And even when there is a deliberate effort, sometimes it's hard to keep up.

And so, I say all of that just to say that yeah, there are different ways to think about how to measure representation. Obviously there's the music that's being played, but I think there's also ways to think about sort of like the communities that are playing that music and how that's changed or changing.

[00:23:28] Rosalyn: kind of specialized in niche programs. Right. but in that there's also a lot of opportunity to balance the scales as well.

[00:23:34] Kwende: Oh, absolutely. And I think that TKCU does a good job with this in general. I feel like, you know, we're one of the only places that you can hear a Nukhtatuk on the air right now. That's, you know, they're Inuit people who are sharing their culture, like, and we're supporting that.

Same thing with, like, with Ukrainian. We have a Ukrainian show on the station, they come directly from the Ukrainian community. It's not like, you know, somebody saying, I like Ukrainian stuff, so I'm gonna be sharing, like, this Ukrainian stuff that I've collected.

[00:24:02] Rosalyn: yeah, like deliberate cultural programming. Yeah.

[00:24:05] Kwende: Yeah and I think that that, I think that that's really cool and we have that within the music space as well. But I think that, as I said, like that the community is always changing. Like when I was working in the city, I forget what the top five languages spoken were, but they're different now.

And so it's like just recognizing that and being like, okay, so like there's always room to sort of grow and change and sort of get in tune with where we're at.

[00:24:31] Rosalyn: But do you think something like, for like a commercial radio station and I'm just like pie in the sky, I want everyone to. Do better. I'm wondering like, you know, do you ever see a world where, people see a report like this or like numbers and go, Oh wow, we should really have a mandate to have more gender representation or to have more, ethnic diversity in, in the stuff we play.

is that going to move the needle at all with any sort of commercial radio seeing a report like that?

[00:25:00] Kwende: I mean, I don't think a mandate is going to do it. Having been on the board of factor with like all of the radio executives, these folks are not insensitive to these ideas by any means. And the other thing is, I think they also recognize that it's smart business.

You know, like, if this is reflective of the society that we're actually in, and this kind of representation will make folks feel included and want to engage with you more, then it's smart business. And so, at first I was going to say something a bit more pessimistic, but then I thought about it and I was like, you know what, I bet you if this report, oh, this report has obviously gone, I imagine the folks around, like, that kind of a table would have seen this kind of report and I imagine there would be discussion about it on, and then, about what could be done.

In general, folks want to do better. but I also think that sometimes the pace of business and the pace of community are just different

[00:25:56] Rosalyn: Hmm.

[00:25:57] Kwende: and like, that's usually sort of where some of the rub is.

[00:26:01] Rosalyn: that gives me some hope. I like that. Do you see something similar with the folks behind the mic? Like, you know, in terms of representation or just kind of diversity of, programming really. You know, are you, are you seeing that changing?

[00:26:16] Kwende: Yeah, I think we're seeing it changing but I think this is where organizations can do a lot here by just recruiting purposefully. and also by recognizing that, like, you know, the nature of volunteering is changing, the time that they have to contribute is sometimes really limited, and that it needs to be focused, it needs to, be purposeful for them, or feel like it's helping them advance in some kind of way, and sort of developing and targeting the kinds of things that we're asking for.

folks for and from folks and how we ask too. And so I think all of that is part of what we're working to figure out as we turn 50, because I think it was obviously different. Like, you know, what, what diversity meant was different in 1975 when the station started.

and as time evolved, it continued to change, right? And if we're a station that's focused on communities that don't see themselves represented in traditional media, there are a lot more communities like that partially because traditional media has become a lot more homogenous in that, like, So much of it is the same thing.

There's been so much merger and acquisition within the media that ultimately, you're kind of seeing the same stuff everywhere.

[00:27:28] Rosalyn: Yeah, you can, sometimes go through your radio dial and hear the same song or if you're listening to satellite radio, you know, walking through a mall or something and you hear like just the same thing over And over again.

[00:27:39] Kwende: and going region to region, it used to be that you would hear different things, but it's like, all of them are owned by the same companies now there's like they're owned by the same three

[00:27:47] Rosalyn: Yeah. There's no difference even, traveling abroad, you know, I'll hear the same. top 40 hit radio in Europe or wherever, you know.

[00:27:53] Kwende: Yeah, this is it. And so it just means that there are just less opportunities for diversity because there's been so much agglomeration. And so this is where, again, you know, these types of local networks that can be more adaptive, that can shift and grow a little bit more flexibly with sort of where the community is at and sort of operate at the pace of the community as well, I think it's going to assume I feel a different kind of importance and resonance within, within local communities who still have things like this, because there are lots of communities who don't anymore.

[00:28:25] Rosalyn: That's very true. You mentioned volunteerism. I want to know if you can tell folks how can they get involved either with CKCU if they're in the area or, with their own campus community radio if

[00:28:35] Kwende: Well, see, with CKCU, they can hit our website. the website is ckcufm. com. the website is a work in progress. I mean, it's a completed work that continues to be in progress. We're working towards something special for our 50th with the website and sort of like, getting it somewhere if not future forward a little bit more in step The website's always a living document, for sure, and it's going to get a glow up. This is what I'm saying. But yeah, you can check the website to find out how to volunteer with us. We have a volunteer form that you can fill out, our volunteer coordinator.

I will get back to you. We have a couple of training sessions that we do with folks and then onward on their volunteer journey. And there's a bunch of new volunteer opportunities that we're developing. as I said, particularly as we figure out how to market the station off of social media again,

[00:29:22] Rosalyn: Can you describe, and I'm sure that this is all on the website, but just for my own curiosity, just like some of the different kinds of things people can do,

[00:29:29] Kwende: Sure. I mean, right now, I mean, and in particular, I'll, I'll say this, that one of the things that we've been doing over the time particularly during the pandemic was really like rebuilding all of our systems. Because, you know, when I got there, as I said, there was so much paper there weren't as many Processes And because of those, there weren't so many processes, it was difficult to sort of just keep track of all the various opportunities that we were offering. And so we're now starting to rebuild it from the ground up where obviously there are broadcast opportunities to develop, you know, a piece of content that will be in broadcast or whatever.

On podcast as well. There's a production component to it with folks who can work with us in audio production and help us produce ads or sort of like content for partners. There's going to be a lot more different marketing opportunities To work with us on marketing and then developing sort of like our seasonal campaigns.

and then within that marketing space, like design and this kind of thing is sort of like areas where folks can work with us. And then obviously finally fundraising is an area where we're definitely always looking for folks to volunteer. Anybody who is motivated by that sort of charitable giving, we are a charity.

And so. Fundraising is an important part of what we do. And so, yeah, those are, those are a few areas where folks can get engaged with us.

[00:30:50] Rosalyn: Fantastic.

[00:30:51] Kwende: you know, with, with some of these things, you know, as we develop sort of how we market our seasons there's going to be a lot more event based opportunities to volunteer as we sort of figure out how we're going to launch these seasons and make sure that folks know about the content that we're creating on the station,

[00:31:07] Rosalyn: Great. And we will absolutely link to where you can find out more about that and how you can get more involved, how you can donate. If you want one of those sweet, sweet tax receipts, you know, somewhere to put your extra money, you know, tax season comes along, donate now,

[00:31:22] Kwende: Reduce that taxable income

[00:31:24] Rosalyn: right? Support your community campus radio.

Before we wrap up, what message do you have to get folks excited about becoming involved in tuning in?

[00:31:33] Kwende: mean, the message is ultimately that, and it's a, and it's a funny thing. It's a funny thing to be saying, because again, I'm dating myself in some ways. And I was saying this to the staff the other day, that it's funny that this is actually a value proposition these days.

It's funny. If you want to get engaged with something in real life and like to work with real people, not robots and computers and be able to have an impact on the place where you live, there are real opportunities for you to do that with us. Whether you're a younger person, whether you're a person who's older, retired, you know, our volunteer span.

The gamut from teenagers to folks in their 80s. And you know that sort of multi generational component of it. We didn't get to talk that much about it But I think that's another component of it That's really really special and that we're working to develop more capacity to sort of do some of that multi generational learning by sort of Pairing volunteers with more experienced volunteers and develop sort of more intentional mentorship so that folks are really being able to soak in and connect to all that experience, all that knowledge of the community.

And I realized now that I grew up taking for granted that there was all of these opportunities to be and stay connected to where I lived at. and so in some ways I didn't really think about that as a value proposition. It was just sort of like a thing that was always around.

But now that I do this and I'm, I have this role and in particular, as I've been connecting with just like a lot more younger people by virtue of being on campus by virtue of Liking to party, but I've realized that there's a real hunger for that, and there's a growing market for it, you know, not just with respect to CKCU, but I think just citywide, there's this growing appetite for being more connected.

And I think that, yeah, CKCU offers you an opportunity to do that in a really unique way, with a really historical institution.

[00:33:27] Rosalyn: We have been asking folks that come on the show to give us a you know, like a, a, A little summary of what you think of folk, what is that, evoke for you?

[00:33:40] Kwende: um, I think, like, folk is familiar, folk is community, folk are your people, like, you know what I'm saying? They're people who you identify with. and how you identify those people could be geographic, could be ethnic, could have nothing to do with any of that. Could have to be just an affinity. But based on, you know, love of music, love of a sound, love of whatever.

But, that's your folk.

[00:34:02] Rosalyn: That's beautiful. Koindé, it's been such a pleasure to get to chat with you, this has been such an engaging conversation, and I really appreciate you taking the time to be here.

[00:34:11] Kwende: Thank you, Roslyn. I'm, I'm remiss that I didn't ask enough questions of you because I'm trying to figure out how you, I'm trying to figure out how you're seeing all of this as well as a podcaster who is, you know, making content right now, which is being broadcast, but the paradigm that you work in, like, how do you, how are you seeing all of this right now?

[00:34:31] Rosalyn: Well, I will say that it's being able to engage with both mediums. So we record a podcast, but then we also broadcast on CKCU and being able to Do the radio broadcast allows us to incorporate music.

It's such a valuable way for us to engage with our membership and engage with our community to be able to know who's releasing music, who's making new content all the time. And, and we're able to release it. And when we release it out into the world on The radio, they get money.

So it's like such a beautiful, harmonious way for us to stay current, to provide value to the working musicians who most likely are not going to get access to commercial radio. And I just, I, I really, deeply see the value That it has, and it's and it's neat to be able to marry it with the, you know, the, the podcast format because, you know, we know that that's, popular and, and it, helps with, accessibility, but it's a, It's a wonderful thing.

[00:35:24] Kwende: That's cool.

[00:35:30] Rosalyn: That's all for this episode, friends. The ReFolkUs Podcast is brought to you by Folk Music Ontario. Find out more by heading to folkmusicontario.org/refolkus. That's R-E-F-O-L-K-U-S. The podcast is produced by Kayla Nezon and Rosalyn Dennett and mixed by Jordan Moore at The Pod Cabin. The opening theme is by King Cardiac, and the artwork is by Jaymie Karn.