The Art of Booking with Mark Steiner of GigSalad

Rosalyn Intro: [00:00:00] Hey friends, I'm Rosalyn Dennett and welcome to season five of Refolkus. Each episode I am joined by incredible guests from all areas of the music industry, for good conversations and informative chats with a focus on folk. Hello folks, Today we are talking to Mark Steiner. Mark Steiner is the co-founder and CEO of GigSalad, the leading online marketplace that connects event planners with performers, entertainers, and service professionals across the United States and Canada.

Rosalyn: Since launching GigSalad in 2007, Mark has driven the company's vision, business strategy, and customer first ethos. Transforming a simple talent directory into a vibrant platform used by millions of event hosts and thousands of creative professionals nationwide.

Welcome, mark. How are you [00:01:00] doing?

Mark Steiner: I am doing great.

glad to be here. Rosan.

Rosalyn: uh, I'm really glad you're here as well. so I was wondering if we can start off, by talking a little bit of let's go before gig salad. How did you get your start, working in the music industry? What interested you in, doing what you do?

Mark Steiner: so just prior to Gig salad, I had a talent booking agency and it was called Steiner Talent. I, uh, had. Gone solo in 2001. Prior to that, I worked for a small boutique booking agency in New York City called Phoenix Town Agency, and they were owned and operated by the same people that owned the license for the Glen Miller Orchestra.

I started in the, in the music business in 1994. working for Phoenix Town Agency. It was a friend of mine had taken over the agency. He was managing it and it was just him at the time. He thought I would be a good agent. and as it turned out, I was, uh, I had a knack for it and, uh, I was there for seven years, before I [00:02:00] decided to go out on my own.

There was a brief three month stint that I went to. Work for my friend who's a really prolific and super talented architect in New York City. And, I thought I needed a change of pace. I thought I was sort of burned out. the opportunity was great, but it wasn't my, love or passion. And so I put out the shingle of Mark Steiner and Steiner talent.

Picked it up from there and it morphed into including a speaker's bureau and, uh, off to the race as I went.

Rosalyn: And, you know, we're, talking about gigs on this episode. as a, as a talent agent, you're involved in booking gigs, as you're getting your start. What were some. Of the lessons that you learned kind of about the gig economy, as you were booking as an agent.

Mark Steiner: Yeah, so, Having cut my teeth as it is, on the Glen Miller Orchestra, which is a band that has been on the road. Ever since Glen died. So there's been a, what they refer to in [00:03:00] the big band world when the leaders Pass is they're referred to as ghost bands and very often there might be a relative of the leader that takes over the baton.

Or there's somebody that was in the band, itself that takes over, somebody has an interest and buys an interest into it. But when I got involved as an agent in 94, there was still a ballroom circuit. There was still enough of the generation that grew up with big band music that was still out there, young enough to still be dancing to that.

And throughout the Midwest, there was still ballrooms that had been there for decades. and so between the bookings that I did were, that were for dances and the bookings I would do very often for at performing arts centers that sort of size venue, a thousand, 2000, maybe as big as 3000.

the idea was that I was needing to route bands and, as an existing established. Famous band like that. Very often the name sold itself. It was really what I would call a [00:04:00] venue. it was very seldom, just outright, no, we're not interested in that. It was either not now next season, when are they passing through, when are they routed?

And so I started to get some semblance of this gig economy understanding then. my ex-wife was also, she's a concert violinist and she also did gigs. She did a lot of wedding gigs and corporate gigs, strolling, violinists, you know, putting together quartets, things like that.

And so I understand that, I come from an acting background, so I understood that sort of piecemealed. You get a job here, you get a job there, there's time in between where you have to go get a survival job. but I understood, this world from an artist standpoint, so I understood that, very often whether you're dealing with professionals that are trying to just.

keep the calendar full, or sometimes it might have been just sort of weekend warriors or part-timers that this was a side hustle for them. but either way, for me, I enjoyed being a booking agent because I was giving these really talented people, you know, a place to [00:05:00] do what they love and were, you know, really great at.

Rosalyn: And then how did that, then lead you, to gig salad and, it seems like a bit of a, a metamorphosis there.

Mark Steiner: it was totally a timing thing. I was quite fortunate in that I launched my company in 2001 and I started working with a friend of mine who had gone to FIT in New York. he was a graphic designer that had started to dabble with doing web design, and so he was doing my business cards and my, you know, advertising and things.

But I, said, I think I need to have a website. And so it might have been end of 2002, beginning of 2003, I now have the Steiner talent website up there. And though that wasn't the infancy of the internet by any means, I think in our industry and certainly within the. Booking agency realm.

I was a fairly early adapter

and there was one other company that had started in 97 with this model that was really one of the [00:06:00] early marketplaces. so they took that booking agency concept and it was basically a glorified directory or a database where event planners would go to their site.

I always try to not talk about the competition, but I'll give props because I'm friends with the, the co-founders they've sold since. But, they were gig masters and so it was a place where event planners would go to find. the vendors that were listed on there, and they would have a direct connection and they would book.

So it was this very automated version of a talent booking process. but they were the really, the only ones that had been up there for a long time. They created this business model and then I launched my website. All of a sudden I'm getting inundated with people putting in the keywords of booking agent talent, agent clowns, wedding bands, whatever it was, talent, et cetera.

Steiner talent was coming up in that search. And I, having [00:07:00] come from an artist background myself, had, some heart for the artists that were trying to hustle and find opportunities. So the artists were contacting me, looking to be listed on my roster.

' I was a booking agent, not a talent agent, as a booking agent, I was a liaison between talent and. The promoters or producers or talent buyers and I worked with all the big agencies. my business model was I was booking national touring acts, headliners.

Celebrities, you know, it was bigger acts, $5,000 acts and higher and often, much higher for corporate events. So people would find the Steiner talent website and see the talent that I was working with, and they were reaching out to me, looking for representation, wanting to know if I, they could be listed on my roster, just looking for gigs.

And at the same time those artists were primarily local regional artists, is how I refer to them. So they were, balloon twisters and face painters and clowns and local bands, cover bands, et cetera, et cetera. And at the same time, I was getting contacted by [00:08:00] mothers planning kids' birthday parties, and.

Brides or mother of the brides or wedding planners now doing searches looking for vendors and services and et cetera, and Steiner talent was coming up and neither one of those parties are part of my business model. But I always felt inclined to try to help and, give advice at a minimum and serve them.

So I'm spending a lot of time on the phones 'cause they would call me or they'd send me emails and, I'm not the brightest bulb, but if finally, uh, clicked, like, okay, there's a concept here that needs to be, explored. So I went to my friend who was that web designer and had been doing all my graphics and such and said, you know, We should probably look at this. And so we, it started as a very simple directory. Like, Hey, people contacted me. If you wanna be listed on this, separate website, hopefully the event planners that are looking for you will find that and not Steiner talent. And you guys can do your business together.

You can pay me to be listed on there or something. We'll work out the monetary exchange. But, that's how it started. [00:09:00] And just great stroke of luck. Like I said, it was the, kind of the beginning within our industry and organic SEO search engine optimization came our way very easily And, it just kept growing. You know, we were in a beta stage from 2003 up until about 2007 through a couple of different iterations of using various coders and sort of trying to just, you know, I was running my agency, Steve was running his ad agency and we're kind of, it wasn't exactly. a background sort of thing.

We were giving this a lot of time and effort and some small monetary investment, but we were always working towards it. And then eventually we hired a really, a, a young developer right out of college, and he got it to a, a whole nother level. 2007 was our official launch. That's when we really came outta the gate strong.

both of us were working out of our homes at the time, and I had a couple people working around our kitchen table and the phones really started to ring at that point. And, I moved outta my place in Springfield, Missouri and that [00:10:00] sort of established here as the headquarters of our company.

My partner was WI in Wilmington, North Carolina. And, Off we went. I mean, the two offices have traditionally been the developers and the design had always been in Wilmington. And then the customer service, what we call customer happiness and the administrative and the bookkeeping and et cetera, was here in Springfield.

And now, 20 plus years later, we got a lot of remote People on the team, including, most recently, our VP of marketing and business development, business growth, is in Montreal.

Rosalyn: Hi, yes, Dave. Cool. Friend. Friend of friend of the org. Yeah.

Mark Steiner: Yes,

Rosalyn: okay. So almost 20 years. is, is coming up. What does the organization look like now? what's the snapshot now of how gig salad is, is operating?

Mark Steiner: Yeah. So We were small and scrappy to start. it was me, co-founder Steve, our first real hire, Locke Bircher, who we gave some equity to early on. so it was the three partners and, a couple people that [00:11:00] were working for Steiner Talent that we sort of, okay. You got some gig salad duties as well, and, we grew to balloon to almost 35 people in the teens. And big bloated marketing department 'cause that was my passion and love promotions. And so I always had crazy ideas and needed to add lots of people to the equation. and then through some attrition and. A couple series of events we dwindled down and we to where we're in and around 20 to 25, most of the time and most everybody stays with us for forever.

there's a lot of loyalty and so the majority of the team has been with us for around 10 years. and, the development, there's a core in Wilmington still. me and Locke bought out Steve, the co-founder in 22.

So it's just, uh, Locke and I now as owners. And then, we got Dave in Montreal. We have somebody in New York. We have somebody in Chicago, somebody in Tennessee, somebody in Michigan but probably 10 of us here in Springfield. [00:12:00] And that's the customer happiness team and our bookkeeper. And, I just hired an assistant. I have an executive assistant, and uh, that's been an, that's been a game changer. we've always been profitable, we've always grown.

we don't carry any debt. We're a bootstrap company, so it's, you know, I've been very proud of how we've grown this sort of slow, steady wins race cream rises to the top mentality. It was nice to have been the employer of lots of people and surround yourself with lots of creativity and ideas and whatnot.

But I've learned how to do business along the way. I don't come from any formal background. I didn't go to college. I moved to New York, right outta high school to be an actor and worked in the movie business 10 years and then just sort of was this scrappy sales guy.

You know, I, I learned how to be an agent and, it morphed into gig salad. And by accident I'm the quintessential, classic accidental, CEO and uh,

I thought, how did I get here? I never wanted to be a businessman, but I think I kind of have a knack for it.

I [00:13:00] just wrote in a, a little post I did on LinkedIn talking about my style, and I'm very much an eq, emotional intelligence sort of leader. If I lead it all, it's definitely from the heart and soul and, but in a recent, uh, kind of a couple years ago, got diagnosed with A DHD, which I didn't know I had I was 58 when that diagnosis came in, But, you know, the big question at that point was, how do I treat this? Do I treat it? Do I need to treat it?

I've gotten this far without knowing. On the one hand, I've, I've felt like, okay, this has worked, but I've gotten, busier as I've gotten older. I'm, you know, gig salad is just one aspect of what I do. So I have lots of other projects and, and things I'm, I'm working on. I thought, well, maybe I need to figure out how to manage this well, spin the plates and.

Juggle the balls and, and on and on. And am I focusing well? Am I easily distracted? All this stuff and, I've found my way.

Rosalyn: You seem like you're doing great.

Mark Steiner: Well,

Rosalyn: I was, but I was gonna say, I think that's something a lot of creatives [00:14:00] can identify with, right? Because a lot of folks are spinning multiple plates or have multiple jobs or have multiple interests or multi hyphenate, folks. and so, similarly when we're talking about like a DHD and these kind of, Different, types of kinda late, you know, yeah. Conditions that, but ones that you kind of become aware of as an adult, when you're working in the creative industries. I think there's a really interesting, turning point, or at least it was for me, where I went like, am I creative because I've let my brain go unchecked and, do its thing or can I control?

Parts of me and will I still have the ideas and will I still be creative? And it's, uh, yeah, it can be an interesting, challenge to take on, you know, to figure

out

Mark Steiner: It's been that can tell you for me, I, I definitely, I am not medicated. I tried various things for a couple years, on and off and, other forms of treatment I've tried, you know, things that I thought, definitely helped. Um, but I am currently and, entirely substance-free and stimulant [00:15:00] free.

And, I've never done better in my life. I've never been as happy as content. As productive. and I am extremely ambitious. I still have lots of stuff that I'm doing, and so far, like I said, I, I was doing, Well enough, without assistance. And then I raised my hand, said I need help.

And now with that person, it's kind of been exponential. And so anybody that's out there knows that they have this thing or thinks they may have this thing, there's hacks and there's, you know, ways you can definitely harness it and use it. It's a strength,

Rosalyn: Yeah. It can be the superpower and I think it's just, it's, such a neat time, to become aware of something like that too, because I think there is a lot more conversations happening, about like neurodivergence and, and especially in creative industries and in, in music.

Even just today, scrolling through different events that are going on, there's panels that are about it, and there's, at our conference, you know, we have, different peer sessions and affinity groups and it's, uh, much more open time to be able to talk about Neurodivergence and a lot more supports and [00:16:00] hacks and, all the different apps in the world and, so many different, things out there to, to support folks but I wanted to, Take a little bit of a look as well at, the user experience of Big Salad and, I love the idea of the, directory aspect and certainly as, person who's worked also as an artist and event planner and, and, works in events works as an artist.

you know, being able to make that connection, is really important. And, and certainly right now a lot of artists are making their, bread and butter, you know, stuff off of corporate gigs or, or wedding gigs. And that's, you know, such a good revenue maker for, know, especially like a, the gigging musician working musicians right now.

can you explain a little bit if people aren't familiar with the site, a little bit about the user experience? maybe both as an event planner and as an artist.

Mark Steiner: So first to just address we refer to them as the pks, the, the promo kits on the site. So, so our members or the vendors. Originally it was. Place just for performers. So anybody that did what they did on a stage with a microphone, et cetera. [00:17:00] And later we added other event service providers.

' cause we found that a person was coming to gig salad to find, some aspect of the event. They were PLA planning, but they also needed these other services. so we thought, okay, let's make this as much of a one stop shop. Experience, this was like pre-Amazon for the most part, right?

certainly pre Uber and pre Airbnb to be the aggregator of leads or opportunities. once somebody got there. Why not, try to provide as full of service as possible. And so we went from performers to including event providers. And again, this is all happening in and around the same time as Angie's List and some of the home service, marketplaces that are out there.

and the whole gig economy is kind of evolving at this point. so what I would tell the entertainers early on, the ones who were contacting me for representation or felt they needed an agent, Very often, by the way, the reason that they feel like they need an [00:18:00] agent or they need help with booking gigs is 'cause they feel inadequate or they don't use that side of the brain.

You know, I'm an artist, I'm a right sided brain person. I don't got that business stuff. I'd rather let somebody else do it. and I was saying, I was basically. I created this gig salad thing and put myself outta business as an, as an agent. I said, you don't need me. if it's just work you want and need, I'll get you that.

Just list yourself on this platform. We'll talk about what your promo kit or your, electronic. Press kit needs to look like, right? how to promote yourself, et cetera. The same stuff you would've had to do before, but now you're just gonna post it digitally, electronically, and the leads will come to you at that point.

All you need to do is learn how to be a good communicator, and close the deal. always be closing concept. It was tough for people early on, you know, depending on generationally. If they were older performers and you're telling me that I need to learn the computer now, I gotta upload a picture on and on. and so very early on it was handholding. The [00:19:00] customer service was there. No, we got this, we'll do this together kind of thing. Let's walk through it like, and then of course. The younger generation, they're, the longer we've gone on, they've grown up with it and it's like, da da.

So, you know, as long as we've stayed innovative and stayed on top and in front of the trends and, development, then we've done well there. from the event planner side, same thing. there was, people that were now searching. On the computer as opposed to opening up the yellow Pages to try to find small agency in their hometown.

Or how do I find a balloon twister for my child's birthday party? Well, there was, I think there was one at that other kid's birthday party that I need to call that mother, et cetera, et cetera. you know, there's the ease of what we had created there. we had, Maybe a dozen different categories early on. And now we have 500 different categories that you can search for. And as you mentioned, we're all over US and Canada. So it's a classic marketplace. An event planner comes to gig salad. You know, first they put in the search. I'm looking for a, uh, an accordion player in, [00:20:00] Tupelo, hopefully we pop up.

It's a geocentric site. And so, uh, up pops all the accordion players on gig salad in the closest proximity to Tupelo. And once they get there, just like when we shop on Amazon or eBay or any place else, the first thing anybody's gonna look for is what's the rating say.

Rosalyn: Mm-hmm.

Mark Steiner: what has past consumers said about you and your, and that experience, et cetera, et cetera.

mean, of course, looking at their press kit. are you promoting yourself well? Do you have quality photos, quality video

Rosalyn: Yeah, let's, talk about that a bit. That was a question I wanted to follow up with, which is, what advice would you have for, artists or, or folks that are promoting themselves, what advice would you have as they're putting their, a PK or their, press kitt, together.

Mark Steiner: Yeah, well, you know, this is still a business that you know, word of mouth is, is key. or. You know, if you have an opportunity to actually, gone to somebody's wedding and you saw a wedding band that was just killer. First things first, you're gonna, you know, and you ha you happen to have a wedding coming up, you know, can I get your card right?

I've seen you, you look great. You sound [00:21:00] great, blah, blah, bum. you asked the bride how was the experience? you got the validation there. they're vouched for, Doesn't always happen that way. not always seeing somebody live, it's not been your firsthand experience.

So it's either word of mouth or now it's, lemme do a search. And now it's, it's more, let me ask ai, you know, uh, which is what it's become even more, but, how you promote yourself, I can't emphasize enough, you know, be professional. look at what the competition's putting out there.

if you're new at the game. You're aspiring to, you know, make a, make a living outta this. go, look at the ones that are, you know, look at what they've put together. and first and foremost it is it's video. if people can't see you perform live, then give them the next best thing and showed them quality, quality, quality, quality.

It's not quantity. You don't have to have a lot. Just one great clip is enough. but build on that too. You know, always find opportunities, how to keep your content updated, and so [00:22:00] video photo. bio of the, of the band. an act description. if you are a musician, include a set list.

just think ahead, like as a, as a consumer. If you were looking for, what would you wanna know, what would you wanna see? And as I said, When you play, get reviewed, beg them to give you, hopefully the five star review You know, I shop on Amazon and there's 20 different choices. I'm gonna go to the one that has the highest rating and the most, of them, you know, if there's one product that has a 10,000 reviews and it you're at 4.8, yeah, that's the one I'm gonna buy. It might be a few dollars more, but that's the one I'm gonna buy 'cause it's been proven.

Right. that's it. You know, we could talk about social, I'm myself learning a little more about social and how to promote myself, and I've had other people that have done that for gig salad. And, as I said, we've been really fortunate in that word of mouth and, Just organic. SEO has been our lifeblood. we didn't have to advertise, actually, we [00:23:00] didn't have to do digital marketing forever. We went to a lot of conferences and trade shows and kind of did just sort of the brand recognition, like just wanting to be in front of people and put eyeballs on our, on our logo and, and whatnot.

But we didn't have to do it for so long and now. With AI and how AI has diminished SEO, searching We're still high in the search, just people are doing it less, about 30% less. so now we're trying to be innovative. We're trying to stay on top of the AI and how are we going to incorporate that into our business?

in every aspect, but including, and most, and in some ways, not most importantly, but up there is how are we going to come up in that conversation back to the social, you can't underestimate it. it's all about building brand. and most importantly, get on gig salad. I used to. Say, well, the proof's in the pudding. Just do a search and you'll see why you need to be on gig salad, whatever it is you do, do a search [00:24:00] for that thing.

how does that thing come up in a search? There's a very good chance we're always gonna be on the first page. I could always felt very confident to say, we're gonna be in the top three. They were gonna be on the upper side of that page, but most of the time we, if we weren't number one.

We were really close. So that, that's one thing. It's one thing to be associated with the platform that's coming up in the searching, but then it's up to you. ' cause when they find you, you're on your own at that point. however you sell yourself at that point is, is something we can help with.

But you, you control that.

Rosalyn: is there a way to kinda get a leg up or are there, some tips that you have specifically for using the platform and, and making your profile stand out?

Mark Steiner: so we have some gaming sort of hacking that you can do. it's a freemium model so anybody can get on there today and have a profile up within minutes. and it works. free, listing is fine if you just, you know, people often wanna just dip their toe in before they make an investment.

I underst, I get it. a paid [00:25:00] listing automatically brings you a little higher, you get more bells and whistles, but over and, and above that, and, is the ratings, you know, it's get work. Do a great job, show up on time, have a good attitude. You know, it's even, it's the stuff from the very beginning of the process.

You got a lead. How quickly did you respond to the lead, and then from that point till the very end, how was your communication, Sort of silly things that we take for granted, but are you kind, are you considerate? Are you respectful?

Do you speak professionally? and so if you do all those things and you promise them the world, and then you give them the world, then, that's it. You know? It's, It's easier than you think. You know, once you get into that rhythm and mode and you treat it like it's supposed to be, it is a, you know, you're in show business and the business side of that is the key.

Rosalyn: Are there any, success stories that you wanna highlight or like terrible warning stories? Either

Mark Steiner: Oh Yeah, I have great [00:26:00] stories about people. So, did you go to Music Biz last year? it was in Atlanta and I was in a lobby after a session and I met a young lady she introduced herself just. networking.

She was, it was amazing. I was so impressed she introduced herself. What do you do? I have a platform called Gig Salad. What do you do? Well, I'm, I'm here. as a marketer, helping artists promote themselves, but, As a side, you know, I, I'm also a dj. He's like, oh.

I say, what I often say when I meet people in these sorts of settings, well tell you what get on gigs out. I'm gonna give you a complimentary membership, paid membership for a period of time. Try it out. Just go try it out. so then the process is go create a free promo kit once it's verified.

Let me know, I'll have somebody contact you. They'll manually upgrade you to the paid, blah, blah, blah, and they'll get you onboarded and et cetera. So while we were still at the conference, she did that and in 30 minutes, she had booked five gigs. No kidding. [00:27:00] And it was one buyer I believe It was a retailer. I don't, I don't, it wasn't a car dealership. It might have been like a mattress company or something. And they booked her to be the DJ in the parking lot over the weekend, and she went to these different locations Those sorts of things have happened so often from the event planner side.

The beautiful part of this is. If you're intentional, if all it is is finding the right vendor and you're ready to book, I can tell you plenty of times where, somebody did a search, found gig salad, found what they liked, sent an inquiry, the vendor immediately replied and said, yes, I'm available.

Here's my price. And they agreed, booked it, and those sorts of things. It, you know, it's, it's happened within minutes

and that's really what we, you know, to, to be in the, the tech business. I'm very conflicted. I'm not one that wants you to come to gigs out and hang out for too long.

Come in, find what you're looking for, and then go and put the device down and, and go do life, uh, [00:28:00] person to person. and that's what I want it to be. I'm very proud of the service that we've created and the, what we are providing for both parties. We give people, the chance to do what they love, which I, I, I love on the one hand.

And then. From the event planner side, we have helped people make memories in the most important events of their lives. I say from cradle to grave, you know, we've been at the funerals and we've been at the birth announcements. prior to that, we were at the, the wedding proposals.

To the, to the weddings themselves, on and on and on and on.

but as you mentioned too, like sometimes the bigger number dates, like the corporate events, but, to be in this business is an honor. love it. I've always been in the, I've, I've made a career working in the entertainment talent industry. And I wouldn't trade it for the world,

Rosalyn: Well, thank you so much, mark. And, I wanted to just mention to folks that are listening in that, [00:29:00] you've offered a very generous, discount for folks for, uh, listeners of the podcast and are are full Canada members. so if you're interested in trying out gig salad, there's, more information in the show notes.

I believe if there's a coupon code, it's Refocus, R-E-F-O-L-K-U-S. but please check the show notes or you can check out, information on the, folk Canada website and we'll let you know how to, get hooked up, with gigs through gig salad.

Mark Steiner: Right on.

Rosalyn: Mark, thanks so much for chatting. It is great talking to you, Tia.

Mark Steiner: Great talking to you. This was a lot of fun. I,

Rosalyn: We should do it again sometime. Yeah.

Mark Steiner: Let's do it.

Rosalyn: Yeah. That's all for this episode, folks. The Refolkus Podcast is an original production by Folk Canada. Find out more about us by heading to folkcanada.com/refocus. The podcast is produced by Kayla Nezon and Rosalyn Dennett and mixed by Jordan Moore at the Pod Cabin. The opening theme is written and performed by King [00:30:00] Cardiac, the artwork is by Jaymie Karn, please give us a download, subscribe, rate, and review to let us know you're listening. And be sure to follow Folk Canada on social media for the latest updates, events, and more.