Culture in Climate Conversations with The Weather Station

Rosalyn: Hello and welcome to Refolkus. Our guest today is Tamara Lindeman. The Weather Station is the project of Toronto based songwriter Tamara Lindeman is returning with a new album, Humanhood, which was released on January 17th via Fat Possum records. The last few years have seen the Weather Station released two albums, the Career Defining Ignorance in 2021, and is Ethereal mostly live recording companion piece.

How is it that I should look at the stars in 2022? In that time, the Weather Station have gone on to headline tours across North America and Europe, play major festivals and perform on the [00:01:00] televised Austin City Limits, as well as Jimmy Kimmel Live Ignorance was named the best new music by Pitchfork and landed in the year end Top 10 list from the New Yorker Spin, New York Times Uncut, Pitchfork, the Guardian, and many others called a heartbroken masterpiece in the Guardian. The record was a complex evocation of climate grief that struck a chord worldwide. As a writer, Lindeman is known for her detail. Pitchfork says her writing can feel like the collected epiphanies from a lifetime of observing. And over the course of six albums, her music has moved from home, recorded mostly acoustic folk to what the New Yorker calls the ornate Act of world building. The through line though was a focus on ideas. Her lyrics walk the line between the personal and the conceptual forever. Tying small moments to larger metaphysical quandaries. Nominated for three Juno Awards, a soak and songwriting award, and shortlisted for the Polaris Prize. Her albums have made a mark, both critically and conceptually.

Thanks for joining us, Tamara. How are you doing?

Tamara: I'm good.

Rosalyn: So we've been doing a series of [00:02:00] conversations with Folk Canada and, and with the, the podcast called the Culture in Climate Conversations. And it's an amazing confluence right now to be able to talk to you because your latest album, Humanhood is really addressing climate grief and bringing this conversation into your album in a very personal perspective. So I'm so excited to talk to you about this today. Can you let us know a little bit about the origins of this recording and the process of writing it.

Tamara: yeah, I mean, I was, yeah, writing a record. My previous record Ignorance, which really was about climate grief, had had really taken off, and that was a really interesting experience that I was not expecting to have where I had this record really strike a nerve in the world.

And a lot of people wanted to talk to me about climate feelings, which I was so grateful for because I just, strongly felt for a long time, this is a conversation we need to have. And, as an artist, as a person, my life is not separate from what's happening. And what's [00:03:00] happening is, this climate crisis, which goes undiscussed and unaddressed.

But yeah, when it came time to make another record, was difficult because I did feel some form of pressure to. Express political thoughts, but of course that, as we all know, that's not how songwriting works. Right. You know, you, you write from the heart. So I did write a more personal record, but it's, it's interesting though how, you know, the record is about going through this time of disorientation uh, personally in this, this sort of dark moment in my life and then coming through to the other side and sort of reintegrating.

A sense of understanding myself in the world again. And it's really interesting because the record came out unfortunately, three days before the inauguration of Trump. And, I thought it was this personal record, but it is really unfortunately resonant to the experience of, of the world right now where a lot of people are becoming disoriented and confused and, you know, it's, it's a personal record. It definitely has like climate resonance. It definitely has political resonance. it's a [00:04:00] lot of things.

Rosalyn: You talk about this dark period that you're writing from. Is there an emergence from that period? Or was there something that gave you hope to help you emerge from that? dark period. 'cause I feel like a lot of folks right now are maybe right inside of it and you know, are looking for a little, little spark here and there to light themselves up.

Tamara: Yeah, I mean, I think like the album, you know, as it started to come together and I started to understand what it was, I started to see it as like, not quite a concept record, but a record with a structure. So it begins in sort of disconnection and towards the end what it's reaching towards as connection.

So, you know, I have a couple songs about basically recognizing how the answer to a lot of things is connection, being present, allowing yourself to be vulnerable, you know, friendship, you know, music. Like, all of these very regular things are actually the things that make us feel better, you know, feel human. Then the other thing on the, on the very last song of the record, [00:05:00] I, Talk about this, this sort of metaphor that came to me when I wrote this song, which was this sort of metaphor of the patchwork quilt as like a metaphor for life or for a self or for, you know, this idea of like, not all the pieces match.

It's not perfect it know, but you're, you're gathering together all of these aspects Of your life or of yourself and allowing them to exist together in this very handmade way. And that's sort of like a model for integration. as a person, you know, on a personal journey. That, to me, felt very resonant and not at all like wellness or any sort of like, I must self-actualize and be perfect. It's like, I just loved this. And so I think, yeah, I think towards the end of the record that the path out that I kind of found and that I point to is, is, yeah, connection. Just like regular things, friendship, music.

Rosalyn: The best things. When you were mentioning that with the album Ignorance you got this like a really positive [00:06:00] reaction to, to talking about climate. Were you incorporating that into your live show as well? Like how were you kind of presenting a climate focused album to folks?

Tamara: Yeah, I mean, it's funny 'cause I talked about it a lot on social media and in interviews and sort of in my public persona. But then when I went out on the road, I didn't. quite know how to talk about it on stage or how to speak to it. And I actually really regretted that because I felt like I had this opportunity and I didn't take it.

And you know, I was just playing the gigs. I was thinking about singing, I was thinking about my pitch, I was thinking about gear, you know, I wasn't quite knowing. I sometimes would bring it up, but I sometimes didn't. But yeah, this time around actually for this tour, I really thought about it deeply and I really decided to make this show that was like immersive and was a journey where I do talk about climate and where there's like a video element and I'm trying to bring that forth more into my show this time around.

Rosalyn: I mean, it's obviously not easy. Like this is a [00:07:00] production. You've, you've put a lot of thought into it. But do you have a bit of advice for people who wanna start incorporating that messaging into their performances?

Tamara: Yeah, I mean, it's pretty difficult. You know, I, the thing I always say that I always think of is, there is this callousness that people have over the word climate or greenhouse gases or fossil fuel. You know, a lot of people because. These terms have been with us for so long. There's like a desensitization that has happened, right?

So when you say that word, some people get really defensive. Some people like to turn off. Some people think, ugh, politics and like to check out. So my goal often is to. Recognize, like, what's my job? You know, I'm, I'm not a scientist, I'm not a politician, I'm an artist, so how can I talk about it in an artistic way or a personal way?

So I always think about things like approaching it subtly, from the edge, [00:08:00] approaching it from an emotional standpoint. So like on Ignorance, for example, I'm never saying. Greenhouse gas emissions. I'm saying like, this is how I feel. You know, I'm saying this is how I feel about feeling like I don't have a future that I can, you know, like my anger or my feelings, you know?

And, I think that can resonate sometimes when people have this, this callous over those words. And I think sometimes people are really well-meaning, and they wanna write like a protest song and they put all this jargon in and I really think we listen to music. In a different way that we listen to like a speech or like, you know, news article.

And I think music is a place to reach like the heart. there are ways to subtly bring in climate reality into a space to speak to the feelings of it rather than. did you know that, you know, 20, 30, et cetera, et cetera. However, also like, man, any way that people can do it, I think is important And, you know, I do feel like I'm making this constant adjustment even [00:09:00] on stage on, on this tour. I had this moment on stage where, you know, it was the encore and I would like finally just let myself kind of just talk and like. Be free in the moment to talk to what I saw politically happening or whatever it is.

And there were nights where I got shy and didn't know how to talk about it. There were nights where I got really fired up and the crowd was really with me. But you know, it's different in Berlin than it is in New York, than it is in Iowa. And it's not an easy thing, you know, to be on stage and try to talk about something as fraught as that.

So I don't necessarily know. I've. Always nailed it and maybe somebody else will do a better job than me, but that's just my personal experience.

Rosalyn: it's interesting to think about your specific audience because it's not like, your music, I would say, like transcends genres in a lot of ways. And, and you've played around with a lot of different, different sounds and different types of production. And I'm sure you have like a pretty varied audience.

then someone who can like, count on their, crowd being all lefty folkies that are, behind them. On saying that, have you ever had, like, felt like you didn't [00:10:00] have folks with you there? Like, have you ever felt like, oh, this is, not the right place to, to be saying this or felt like it was any sort of hostility?

Tamara: No, not at all. I, I think I've been pretty lucky with my audience and the people who come are pretty self-selecting. You know, I, I definitely, I think, you know, what we need in the world is for, new country stars to talk about this. I mean, like, we need, we need people who are able to reach, Folks on, on the right on these issues. But I don't have that audience, so I've never experienced that. But I've definitely felt awkwardness before or like, this certain thing of an audience retreating into themselves in this sort of like, are you lecturing me? And I believe in, always being kind of vulnerable and, when I talk about climate overtly on stage, I don't usually like, I don't like write down a speech, you know, because I just, I do believe in being like, vulnerable in the moment and just kind of speaking in this imperfect way I think a lot of people haven't heard someone talk about Climate Inn.

So, I haven't experienced [00:11:00] hostility, but I definitely have online, obviously.

Rosalyn: Yeah, it's, it's such an interesting. Difference that I think everyone has experienced. You know, the different reactions on online versus in person with somebody who might, might not share your same views. But you continue to like speak out online you know, have you ever felt like, oh, maybe I should be holding back?

Has it been hard to like receive, negative comments or, contradictory comments online.

Tamara: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I, yeah, I've been talking about the Canadian election lately and you know, that can bring up Some folks, and, and it can be difficult where there's people in my comments saying things that I know are not true, for example, I have that like frustration that comes up in me where I wanna go through and correct every single thing.

And I'm torn between wanting to reach someone and questioning whether. Sometimes on the internet, it's not even a real person, you know, you don't know what you're dealing with. And when there's misinformation or that like sort of polarization, that's like everything's upside down.

It's really difficult to manage. But I generally feel pretty clear [00:12:00] that if anything, I feel guilty when I'm not talking about it enough, you know, when I haven't had the it takes a lot of fortitude and, sometimes I feel too vulnerable or too shy to post a internet thing. I, I like can't do it for a week at a time.

So I do feel. Shy. But I will say, you know, I mean there recently have been some directives coming to Canadian musicians from the a FM where there's discussion of, you know, in terms of getting visas to tour in the US like that, u-S-C-I-S will start going through your social media and I was on tour when, when one of these directives came through and the issue they were speaking to is not one that I talk about a lot, but I definitely questioned, oh, like, is my visa that's in process, you know, is someone, at a desk somewhere looking at my Instagram page and determining, you know, through this new criteria that I would argue is incredibly.

Wrong. You know, but I, I thought about it, you know, and within 10 minutes I was just like, [00:13:00] I can't, be in my integrity. I definitely feel that the things I speak to are far more important than my career. So that didn't gimme pause, but I could imagine it giving others pause, you know, which is understandable.

Rosalyn: just to clarify, were you on tour in the US when you started hearing about that? Or were you applying for a Visa to tour the us?

Tamara: I was on tour, but I, I actually, like, I was on tour on a P two, but I had an O one in process,

so I was like, oh, my O one, you know, could be not approved. It actually was approved, so I'm in the clear. Maybe until they changed the rules. But yeah, I kind of was in both situations at the same time where I was there and then I was like, oh, my oh one application is somewhere, you know, at the Department of Homeland Security.

You know? And that's a weird feeling.

Rosalyn: you know, artists right now and, music companies certainly with like Folk Canada Organ, our organization, you know, are, you know, wondering. If we should even be like, traveling to the us, and questioning like our care of duty to, people we're bringing down.

And [00:14:00] for someone like, yourself who does a, quite a lot of touring in the US and Is, is has success in the us how are you feeling about, about that at this moment?

Tamara: I'm feeling quite mixed. You know, I'm feeling really mixed. I mean, when The tour. I was just on the tour. I'm about to go on. I mean, these were booked like last spring, you know, I mean, they've been in the works for so long, and when all of this started shifting, I definitely thought it through, you know, and, and I, I felt that in my case, I'm playing independent venues with independent promoters.

I would be letting down, you know, the loveliest people, you know, if I didn't go. It's like the, the ecosystem of independent music is the one that I'm in, in the us which is the least, aligned with any of the things that are happening. And so I did feel that I was in my integrity to go and to speak to the things I'm speaking about and to play the music I'm playing for people that are being.

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Tamara: Affected by what's happening. They're not causing what's happening. They're, you know, they're being hurt by it. So [00:15:00] in this moment, I didn't feel like it would be right to not go, but it definitely gives me pause And, you know, I, we were, all quite concerned crossing the border. And, you know, I think there've been a few stories that have been a little scary.

And I think we'll all be. Keeping an eye on it. I don't know. I mean, 'cause it's like, I also do believe that, when it comes to things like Canadians canceling their trips to the us in protest, I think that's amazing. I think that's such a good move. I think that is so fantastic and I really hope it sends a message.

So I feel like I come down on both sides of that, in this, in this funny way.

Rosalyn: the relationship to the climate discussion are you approaching it from a different viewpoint or with like a different message when you're in Canada versus any other like international country that you're, that you're performing in?

Tamara: Yeah, I, that really came up a lot on this tour because it's very different depending on where you are. And I, I was feeling very sensitive in the us. I, went down with all these things I [00:16:00] wanted to say, and then when I was there, I was finding it difficult where I. I just was feeling the pain of that people are feeling, you know, I just was feeling that like fear and powerlessness that a lot of the people that come feel and, and I didn't feel this desire to like, come in guns a blazing because I just felt like we're actually really on the same page.

And, and as I say, these, these folks are being affected more than me, And, there were nights where I just didn't wanna lecture anyone. I was like, people are having a really hard time. You know, and then in Europe, I feel like it's a different thing where people do, have functioning democracies that are doing a lot on climate and, you know, so I can be like, keep going, you know, do more, let's do more.

You know, I, I think, It's different everywhere. Yeah. And I, I don't know what I'm gonna say in Canada. I mean, I, my shows here start in late May, so I'll see, I'll see how that changes what I, what I'm talking

Rosalyn: we have a whole election in between there. So

Tamara: I know.

Rosalyn: so the way that you were. Talking about like your US audience, you know, really evokes in my mind like [00:17:00] that word grief you know, in the same way that you wouldn't talk to somebody who's grieving a loved one, with like a pejorative tone, you know, the same kind of idea that these people might be grieving.

And, and you, have used the word like climate grief. Can you a little bit about what, That feeling is or what, that means to you when you talk about climate grief.

Tamara: Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I think it's very personal to me. You know, I'm, I was born in the eighties, so, you know, I think that there is an experience that folks in the generation, boomers for example, have not personally experienced, and I think they don't have an understanding. Of what it is. You know, where if you're born in the eighties or later, you have been born into something so vast that you've had very little control over.

Where from day one in your life, people are telling you save for retirement. You know, go to university. But then the next. article over is saying sea level's gonna rise. There's gonna be this, there's gonna be extreme, you know, there's gonna be crop failures, there's gonna be migration crises.

And you're [00:18:00] like, which is it? how can I enter the world, be a teenager, be an adult, and not feel secure? There is a future I can look to that will look anything like the present. how can I go and be by the ocean, you know, and see humpback whales and if you're 60, you went and saw humpback whales and you thought they were beautiful.

If you're 40 or 20, you see them and you think, are we going to lose? This in my lifetime, you know, are what are, what are we going to lose, to have this relationship to the natural world where you're like, ah, the salmon are coming up the river, but it's less than it used to be, and they're at risk.

Like there is this constant Pain of living in a world. Is changing where there's so much loss not only in nature, but for people as well. You know, I mean, people in LA who just lost, you know, friends of mine lost their houses. People in Asheville, people I know just lost their houses. You know, like this grief of [00:19:00] grieving our world that we can't count on in the same way and grieving the future that we should have, you know, and also grieving like. To me, something that was really painful about climate was recognizing that so many, well-meaning politicians who are probably lovely people, have not done anything, you know, have not done enough and grieving, like a sense of believing that, folks in power would do the right thing. You know, stuff like that is really painful as well.

And. I think it's so multifaceted. And then there are people, you know, and I, I end up, a lot of these people kind of come to my shows and talk to me, but there are people who are in like a real moment where like, it's like existential and like people can't get out of bed. so like, it can really hit you at times and sometimes that's really hard, especially when you look around the world and you see.

Climate action not happening. You see people, you know, like it can get really heavy for folks, and I really think it's a spectrum between, that [00:20:00] sad feeling that that heaviness in the heart or that questioning all the way down to like, where you're really, not able to function or not able to go do your daily life because this dread or this fear is so strong And, all of these feelings are real. You know, all of these experiences are real. it's partly because that's the part of it that I, I can kind of speak to because, you know, I don't feel I should like, be a science communicator when I'm not. But I do also feel that, I think that.

A lot of what's wrong in the world in terms of climate is just coming from a lack of facing it, you know, a lack of facing that it's actually so important and that it is so heavy. And you know, I think the more, as a society we act like it's not happening, the more we start making these bad decisions. You know?

And, and So I think it's important emotionally and politically.

Rosalyn: so, I mean, even just to reiterate, 'cause you really just said it like the, one of the ways, through the grief is to confront the grief. If that's, you know, the right summary there. are there [00:21:00] other balms or is the answer through it. Really then acknowledging it? Or is there something else too that's helped you come through the grief?

Tamara: Yeah, a lot of things. I mean, I think finding community, you know, like joining a group, going to meetings, you know, finding other people that you can talk to about it and action. anything you can do, any small action, whether it's, Bugging politicians or, taking your money out of fossil fuels which is totally doable.

getting renewable energy, you know, whether it's insulating your house better, you know, like whatever it is. Any, action you can take, I think is helpful emotionally, because then you feel a little less powerless and you feel like you're engaged. I think that's the thing where, In Canada, for example, most people can't, you know, really alter their personal lives to, you know, lower their emissions. It's just not possible in most of the country. But, anything you can do is just helpful for that feeling. And also, acknowledging what you can't do and, and [00:22:00] using that energy or that frustration to.

fight for infrastructure change in your community. Like things like bike lanes or whatever, it's public transit, or going to politicians and, there's lots of people who have gotten pulled into this, you know, who aren't, climate people, but they've done a lot of good, and I think.

Just sort of looking at what are you good at, what can you do, and just trying to do something really helps feel more like you're aligned with your values on some level.

Rosalyn: At this point, like probably when, when this is airing, we will have a new or the same government. It'll be after the, the uh, Canadian election. you talk about reaching out to, to politicians and engaging with politics and engaging with your representatives, what are some of the ways that people can do that?

And, and do you have any kind of helpful, tips on how to, how to engage for somebody who's, who's never engaged with maybe a politician or maybe has never written to the representatives before. You know, some of the, maybe [00:23:00] in like terms of the tone or, or what are some of the messages that you think resonate with with politicians?

Tamara: I mean, it's hard. I think it's important to recognize that like politicians are people too, you know, and I often will, if I call or write. I try not to be like combative, I think it's actually kind of helpful to be like, Hey, I, I have totally said I voted for someone I haven't voted for.

Rosalyn: Why not you go to pander, you know?

Tamara: Why not? I'm just like, I voted for you and I'm really disappointed in X, Y, Z, or whatever. But I think like, I don't know. I think it's difficult in Canada. I really think we need proportional representation. I think that's like our biggest barrier to progressive things like climate action happening, Because our electoral system is so tricky to navigate and first pass the post really distorts. I. The response of what politicians can do. But yeah, I think it's important to, treat politicians like people and try to like find common ground if you ever do end up in a conversation, but then stick to your guns on like the important things.

And also, you know, I think [00:24:00] political engagement doesn't have to be just with politicians, you know, it can be online, it can be in social media, it can be in your community. It can be. I don't know if you, if you work for, you know, if you're a teacher, it's like you can engage in like how the pension is invested or like how the union is operate.

You know, there's lots of things where you can push climate to be an important thing regardless of what your line of work is. and I also think, you know, people tend to approach climate with this perfectionism of like, it's such a big issue and like what's the perfect thing to do?

And what's difficult about climate is it's so multifaceted and there's so many things that need to change, but then at the same time, what's helpful is it's so multifaceted and there's so many things that need to change. So it's like you can make a little chipping away difference in some little dimension of it.

And you can't solve the whole, you know what I mean? So, that's a thought. And also, you know, city politics and like municipal politics can have a big climate impact as

Rosalyn: Mm-hmm.

Tamara: [00:25:00] sometimes that's closer to home than the federal mp you, you may have.

Rosalyn: I'm wondering if you can take a minute to like, speak directly to artists who might be feeling climate guilt or like, you know, speak to the, you know, sometimes there, there's folks who are like, might feel bad about, touring and like, using fossil fuels to tour, you know, taking a plane.

And, you know, you can't really canoe across the ocean, but have you ever felt that kind of guilt and, and could you maybe, maybe speak to artists who might be feeling that and I might be feeling like it's holding them back in some way?

Tamara: Absolutely. I think that's a very real thing a lot of artists feel, and I felt it. Absolutely. You know, I think it's good to think about like, what are a few things I can do, you know, for example, I, I. Basically avoid short flights. You know, I've managed to, like, there was one flight I went on last year to Boston, but like, I don't fly to Montreal.

I don't fly to, you know, if I can drive there, I do. And, and there have been routing sometimes where it's like, I. [00:26:00] You know, you could be in Europe and you could fly from this, this, and I'm like, no, no, no, let's drive. You know, or let's not do this routing. You know, so that's one thing. And then, driving is definitely better than flying, especially when you're like six or seven people and a lot of stuff.

And then, you know, like dumb things like, oh no water bottles in the green room. You know, stuff like that. But, you know, I think it's also important to note that like, that's really not the change we need. You know, what we need is, Canada for example, our biggest polluters are the oil and gas industry, like the extraction of it.

And the fossil fuels. It burns just to extract it, let alone what happens when you extract it, you know? And so it's like, it's this funny thing where musicians are often such conscientious people who tend to shop secondhand and be vegetarian or vegan and ride bicycles. And you know, if you look at your overall footprint as a human is probably significantly lower than your average Canadian citizen.

And you're feeling this like huge guilt about it, which [00:27:00] is understandable. Maybe use that guilt as fuel to be like, I don't wanna feel this way. I wanna be able to travel the world singing my songs, you know? And use that as fuel to push for the world we want. And it's tricky, like.

Touring is maybe the last thing that could possibly change. 'cause like, they do have electric fans in, in Europe now, just like, just over the line. I looked into it like their range is not long enough, you know, like it's so cl it's like, it's a difficult proposition. But you know, I think like still fighting in other dimensions of your life but it's tricky. You do have to do your research and figure out like who is the best and like what, you know. 'cause sometimes it really is a kind of a scam. And I think it's unfortunate that that is the case. I think too, you know, and this is the sort of bargain I struck internally because when I first started talking about this, it was very much like everyone I talked to was like, but you're touring.

Like you shouldn't talk about this. And I was like, we all burn carbon. Like we're all doing it. You drove from Oakville today. You [00:28:00] know, can we get to a place in the society where we're allowed to talk about this even if we burn carbon

Rosalyn: Are there any organizations that you align yourself with or that you would recommend folks checking out that can help even like, understand some of the rhetoric or that can help them with advocacy?

Tamara: things are shifting so quickly, and a lot of the things that I would think of as being good things to do for climate are suddenly shifting where the, you know, the superpower next door is basically trying to accelerate the climate crisis, destroy the world.

I'd like, it's not hyperbole. So then I, you know, I look back to Canada and I'm like, okay, well we've got, you know, threefifty.org has a pretty good. Chapter here, there's like enviro defense. Like there's folks who are, you know, trying to use the power of the legal [00:29:00] system to push for climate action.

there's nature Conservancy, which is like just setting aside land. I mean, there's like music declares emergency in the UK and in Canada, which is just sort of trying to like create some. Music world action on this. There is, David Suzuki and Greenpeace, you know, all the usual suspects.

but I almost wanna direct folks too, to like good thinkers and speakers in the world too. 'cause there's like a lot. I think it's important to stay informed and stay up to date and you know, I can think of, for example from the us this guy Bill McKibben.

It's like he sends out a really great newsletter that just is very calm, very peaceful, keeps you up to date. What's happening? There's Ayanna Elizabeth Johnson is a really wonderful scientist who has a podcast and a book and a newsletter, and she talks about, what the world could look like if we got this right. She's a really positive resource and. there's this really cool company in the US called Atmos, which is like a magazine and a podcast, and it's sort of like [00:30:00] looking at climate in this more poetic, artistic way that I think is really inspiring and helpful.

You know, and if that's kind of how your mind operates, it's really useful emotionally, I guess.

Rosalyn: Well, we'll definitely get some links and, and put those in the in the show notes so folks can go and check that out. Before we wrap up though, I'd love to get to hear a little bit more about your tour plans, especially across Canada and like the plans for for the release. What do you got coming up?

Tamara: Well, yeah, I mean, we're, we're touring out west. In May just a couple weeks. So we're going from LA up to Vancouver and Victoria, and that's our headline show where we've got this sort of visual element and it's sort of like structured almost like a play. It's like, you know, we've really worked hard on, on the show and I'm really proud of it.

So that's our show. Vancouver in Victoria in May. And then in June we've got Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto. We'll be playing I believe in October. We're heading out east. And I think there's a couple festivals in July. Here and there. we left the [00:31:00] prairies off our list, but I really would like to get out there.

Rosalyn: How was the release going? Where can people pick up the new, the new record? I.

Tamara: Oh yeah, I mean it's on vinyl. In Canada it's put out by Nextdoor Records and so yeah, it's on vinyl and CD and band camp and on the internet, so you can find it pretty much anywhere.

Rosalyn: Amazing. Well, I encourage folks to go check that out and we'll Please go out and see the show if the weather station is coming to your area, and if not you know, we'll, we'll start our own advocacy campaign to get the you guys all across the, all across the country. Tamara so wonderful to get to chat with you.

Thank you so much.

Tamara: yeah. Thank you so much.