Building Equity for Women & Non-binary Music Workers with Robyn Stewart

[00:00:28] Roslyn: Hello, and welcome to [00:00:30] ReFolkUs. Our guest today is Robyn Stewart. Robyn is a 22 year music industry veteran, accomplished organization and event director, and currently the Executive Director of Women in Music Canada. Robyn was the Executive Director of the Western Canadian Music Alliance from 2014 to 2022 and was the Entertainment Buyer for the Pan American Games in 2015 and the Vancouver Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games in 2010. Robyn is incredibly driven by her work supporting artists to showcase and develop business in international markets and has [00:01:00] spoken at events in Estonia, Sweden, Australia, UK and more.

[00:01:03] Roslyn: Robyn holds board positions on the Polaris Music Prize and the Heart and Stroke Foundation in Manitoba. These projects allow her to support developing artists and engage in passion projects including working towards gender parity in the music industry on an international level.

[00:01:17] Roslyn: Welcome Robyn, how are you doing?

[00:01:19] Robyn: I'm great. Thank you.

[00:01:20] Roslyn: I'm very excited to speak with you today. I've wanted to get you on the podcast for a while. I really admire the work that you do with Women in Music [00:01:30] Canada. I mean, I've admired all the work that you've done Robyn. but you know, it's been really exciting. to see you at the helm of this organization that, does such amazing work.

[00:01:38] Roslyn: I'm wondering if you can maybe start off by telling us, what drew you to start working for Women in Music Canada, or if you had a prior history with them, before coming on as ED.

[00:01:48] Robyn: Well, I think what really drew me to the posting when they were looking to hire someone new was my work with Breakout West and the Western Canadian Music Alliance that I had been there a long time in the ED role, like you [00:02:00] mentioned about nine years but had been with the organization a much longer time and had realized at the time it was, time for fresh eyes on that organization.

[00:02:07] Robyn: And I think in any creative role, it's nice to have a fresh look at things every once in a while. And I was realizing that the pieces of my role at the time that I loved the most were the things that we're looking at. Building equity, building diversity and inclusion and the pieces like being on the board of key change, the gender balance initiative out of the UK, which Canada is part [00:02:30] of I was on that board for two years before leaving that organization.

[00:02:34] Robyn: also we were one of the first signatories of the Key Change Pledge as breakout West, we were always pushing forward our work within equity and diversity, trying to make sure that our speakers, our presenters, our showcase lineup, our audience, we're all very diverse that we were focusing on that in a lot of ways.

[00:02:54] Robyn: And when this role came up with Women in Music Canada. It was actually originally a [00:03:00] development contract. I knew that the incredible director at the time who had formed the organization, Sam Slattery, was looking to move on to something new. And to me it felt like, a step forward and something new to set my teeth into really make an impact for women in the industry.

[00:03:17] Robyn: I had been in the industry about 20 years at the time. I had in my time faced various struggles in terms of just having to work a lot harder than other counterparts and to really prove myself [00:03:30] in a way that while I felt proud to have done, I wanted to look at ways I could help make it easier for the next generation of women and gender diverse folks coming up.

[00:03:39] Robyn: So this was a great opportunity to try that out and to look at the growth phase of this organization with my light and put a stamp on it.

[00:03:48] Roslyn: and you mentioned kind of the growth and changing of the org itself. can you explain like, so there's Women in Music USA, Women in Music Canada. It's a global network, isn't it?

[00:03:59] Robyn: [00:04:00] Yeah, so it's a global network that's has a hub in New York but they have chapters all over U. S., they have U. K., South Africa, Brazil India, et cetera, and we have now built chapters in, in every province and Yukon in Canada, and we are the, the national overarching chapter for Canada, so it is part of a global network, and it's a great way for us to support gender equity, not just in Canada, but also to [00:04:30] connect individuals with world leaders in, in their fields through our network.

[00:04:34] Roslyn: Awesome. tell us a little bit about not even a bit, tell us a lot, tell us a lot about the different programs that go on at Women in Music Canada and, and what, you're currently offering for folks.

[00:04:45] Robyn: So when I started the one program that was running already was the Entrepreneur Accelerator Program. That is a program that looks at artists and industry, looking at their career as a business in that early phase. So those coming out of university [00:05:00] programs, those earlier in their careers and building into that.

[00:05:03] Robyn: start of their career. So this is a program I took on. After it had been running two years already, we did the third and fourth year in my time. And we saw that the enrollment, the applications for that program were growing exponentially. They've doubled each year of the last two years.

[00:05:20] Robyn: Then we now get almost 300 people applying for that. And to me, it speaks to a lot of things. It speaks to the organization connecting across the country more because we are seeing [00:05:30] applications from everywhere in Canada. It speaks to the need that people are seeing and the drive coming out of post secondary school, women and gender diverse folks wanting to control their careers by being the business owner.

[00:05:43] Robyn: especially during COVID, we saw a lot of people moving from Working for larger companies to running their own business and taking hand in their career. And I think that it was a pinnacle place where this started increasing as well. We have grown that program from 10 participants to 30. [00:06:00] We have seen the cohorts of groups that are part of that each year, stay connected going forward.

[00:06:07] Robyn: We have added mentorship to that because Everything we were seeing in, requests from our membership was more mentorship, more connections outside of those you already know, which I think was something lost during COVID. So that's a program we're really proud of. It's supported by TD Ready Commitment and by Factor and Creative BC and Ontario Creates, who really see the benefit in growing women and [00:06:30] gender diverse communities.

[00:06:30] Robyn: Leaders in business. and that's a program that runs in the fall. So we'll be launching that soon. Beyond that, we started a new program. So we also now do sessions throughout the year that are in one place, but streamed across the country, trying to make sure this national organization is truly national and supporting our audience everywhere.

[00:06:51] Robyn: Our chapters are all doing a lot of incredible things throughout the year. They each do a minimum of one event per quarter, and we will see a lot more of that [00:07:00] coming forward as we gain support for that, we did launch along with our partners At advance and the indigenous music summit this past year, we launched a leadership program where looking at the other end of the spectrum of career at the people who are already working in the industry at a management level, but have desire, interest and drive to move to that leadership accelerator, that C suite.

[00:07:23] Robyn: And this program puts them in a cohort of women and gender diverse folks who are all in a similar [00:07:30] mindset of that who Go through a program of unique skill training by senior leaders and post secondary educators professors, PhDs who are training them in things like leading with empathy and negotiating and knowing your worth and all those skills that you don't necessarily get until you're given the opportunity to be in one of those roles.

[00:07:53] Robyn: And alongside that, we, Give each of them an executive coach to walk them through that training and to get them to the end [00:08:00] of that. It's a program that we've been working on for a few years in development and produced for the first time this year at the top of 2024 with 15 participants.

[00:08:10] Robyn: Really incredible results from that, and it is something we want to keep going to try and change the face of leadership because when we look at the leaders of tomorrow, that is really where we're going to keep that sustainability of equity and diversity in our industry. And so those are, those are two core programs with ours.

[00:08:25] Robyn: We don't do as much focus on the middle range because we feel that the industry [00:08:30] associations, the conferences like Folk Music Ontario are covering really well. The needs of that middle ground of the industry you know, and beyond, but those are, we wanted to dive into the areas that were the least served right now.

[00:08:43] Robyn: and not step on toes and duplicate programming, but look at what wasn't being done yet. so in terms of programming, that's a reset. to celebrate international women's week, we also launched a summit. We've done two of those, essentially it's our conference but focuses on, areas that are really important and requested from our [00:09:00] membership and in a space that we can ensure is going to feel safe and supportive to our industry.

[00:09:06] Robyn: And, You'd understand this too, you put out the information and the panels and the sessions and workshops that you think your audience are really going to love the most, but at the end of the day when we were getting people coming back to us saying, I never felt so comfortable to put my hand up and to be part of the conversation.

[00:09:21] Robyn: That's exactly what we're trying to produce here. so that was a really, a really wonderful passion project as well that our programmer, Tasha Schuman programs [00:09:30] for us. And then finally, our other big flagship one is our honors award program, which again has run twice now. It honors industry and artistry, although mostly, mostly industry who are women and gender diverse folks doing incredible things.

[00:09:44] Robyn: In the industry in certain areas, but also full career scope and those who are up and coming and doing incredible things that may not have had the light shone on them yet, but we want to shine that light and show people what's coming forward. so that's a really fun event and a, and a great opportunity to [00:10:00] get our peers in a room together of just genuine support for each other.

[00:10:04] Robyn: So, those are our key things. We also want to work together with the industry across the country and all scopes of industry to just bring people together with community to showcase the work we can do together when everyone feels comfortable to raise their voice and supported.

[00:10:21] Robyn: And so we do meet up at events at the Junos at a Breakout West and, and a few other events throughout the year that will change year to year, depending where. [00:10:30] You know, budget and interest allows. We want to get around everywhere and sort of spread our wings. But also we want to really be an ear for barriers that people are facing and, use our capacity to, to keep addressing those barriers and breaking them down for people.

[00:10:46] Robyn: just before my time. There was a women in music directory where you can go to find women in different areas of the industry and artistry. So there will no longer be an excuse to see a panel programmed [00:11:00] with all men or all white men. I mean, we want to support above and beyond the most underserved voices.

[00:11:05] Robyn: We want to see uplift creative minds that aren't presented on every panel that you haven't seen 18 times before. And so, using our directory to find other resources and other individuals to speak with, we hope people will, will continue to use as well.

[00:11:21] Roslyn: So you mentioned the barriers that folks are facing. I'm wondering if we can just dive into that for a moment and if from [00:11:30] your position and experience, if you can just talk a little bit about what some of the current barriers you see, women and gender diverse folks are, are facing right now when they're trying to actively participate in the music industry.

[00:11:43] Robyn: I would say, I think that one thing that comes up in almost every conversation we have around barriers is imposter syndrome. I think that there's still a lot of it. And I, I, I see it in myself sometimes too. Is that feeling of do I belong in this space? space. Do I have a voice in this space?

[00:11:59] Robyn: And I think that [00:12:00] that's still a barrier for a lot of women and gender diverse folks who walk into a room that isn't necessarily representative or immediately comfortable to them. And so that is one barrier that can be broken down just based on building community and, and making sure that we are working with all different Events organizations in the industry to make those spaces accessible, that you're not walking into a space that you are one of two women in or that, doesn't have anyone else who looks like you, whatever your cultural [00:12:30] background or, or look is.

[00:12:31] Robyn: And, and just trying to, to make sure that, that spaces are comfortable So that you walk in and know, I do belong here, and my voice is important. We recently did a member study, and I would say probably the most noted barrier from that study was caregivers. It's something we've started asking, right in our applications and information is, are you a caregiver and how can we support that for you?

[00:12:53] Robyn: And that goes from parenting is probably the biggest one, but also elder care or care for people with [00:13:00] disabilities. And often just based on how society has been for thousands of years, women very often end up being the primary caregivers for these situations. You know, I'm a, I'm a parent myself.

[00:13:13] Robyn: I have a great, really supportive partner. But there's a lot of things that fall on mothers. and there's a lot of things that fall on you with respect to aging parents and aging grandparents. And so we are working on some different projects this year and are looking to see how we can not [00:13:30] only provide more care support in what we do, but help set the stage for best practices with respect to supporting caregivers.

[00:13:38] Robyn: I think there's a lot of women who either start their career and find that they're pulled in all different directions and have a hard time balancing life and, and career or that actually you know, have to step out of their career for a time for mat leaves, which. Absolutely. I support taking, but there's often a fear of like, what if I take a full year and then step back in?

[00:13:57] Robyn: Have people forgotten what I did? Have people [00:14:00] forgotten who I am as the conversation moved on? And I, and I addressed that myself when I had children and it's unfortunate and it, You know, you live in a fast paced industry and you shouldn't have to feel like you have to fear taking that time away for your family.

[00:14:14] Robyn: and I say that as, as mothers and fathers, because often as a musician and the male parent, you Might be the one who's the primary caregiver. If your wife has a nine to five job. So it's all parents and all caregivers. And, and I think that there's definitely [00:14:30] more we can do with respect to support for that.

[00:14:32] Roslyn: one of my favorite questions and I say favorite sarcastically, it's my least favorite question that I get when I'm at an industry event attending as a professional, just like everyone else, is that I get the question from folks, Oh, who's watching your kids? And like, guarantee that, and I've asked that, my partner who also travels within the music industry has never been asked that when he's alone, participating in the music industry as a professional.

[00:14:57] Roslyn: There is that kind of perceived [00:15:00] responsibility that is in, you know, at this point in my life still placed on me by virtue of gender. But yeah, it's an interesting thing, but you were mentioning that other industries have started figuring some of this out.

[00:15:10] Roslyn: I wanted to mention the balancing act. If you, if you can, maybe speak to that, because I know that they've been very active in I think it started in theater.

[00:15:19] Robyn: Yeah, so it started in theater and dance. Bouncing Act is an initiative to look at policy programming and various supports for caregivers. So, they've [00:15:30] done some incredible work. Some of the programs they've done are like theater shows that are directed for ages, three to six, then they'll have care support on site for kids that are seven to 12 so that you can go to that with your younger kids and have your other older children taken care of or policies around your staffing leaves and and time for care needs.

[00:15:52] Robyn: So it's really an incredible program And without sharing too much ahead of their announcement, they have garnered the support to move that program towards music [00:16:00] and film and television. And so we will be the music partner for that for the next two years to.

[00:16:07] Robyn: help resource the industry to look at how we can better support caregivers in music. And that goes from affordable and accessible daycare to care on site at events, to policies, to just, you know, Making sure that caregivers in the music industry don't feel like they have to step out of their roles or feel guilt or not be supported.

[00:16:28] Robyn: And so we're really excited [00:16:30] and proud of that and excited to share our, our committee that we'll be working on that in the, in the coming weeks.

[00:16:35] Roslyn: That's great. And if folks want to get information about that, can they sign up to your newsletter?

[00:16:42] Robyn: Absolutely sign up to our newsletter. If you are a woman or gender diverse person in the music industry, I encourage everyone to sign up for our directory. That is our basic lip membership level. It's the way that we can communicate really well with you, that we can bring you in to share your voice and what you want to see us doing.

[00:16:57] Robyn: We do yearly membership surveys, [00:17:00] but we also are open to having questions and suggestions all year round. We are here to serve. The women and gender diverse folks in the industry. That is our first and foremost goal. And so we're always open to questions, to comments, even to concerns for sure, because that's how we grow.

[00:17:19] Robyn: and so, definitely sign up for the newsletter, sign up for the directory and then consider our Premium level membership for the benefits it offers. It's something that we brought in just last year. [00:17:30] Including things like group healthcare plans for, if you are someone who runs your own business and doesn't have that and always again, looking for suggestions from our memberships, how we can serve them better.

[00:17:40] Robyn: but with balancing act, we will have more information coming in our next newsletter on that. You can also just Google the Balancing Act Level Up. Which is this, new initiative, their website is live now, and we'll start showing what we're doing within that. But I do encourage anyone wanting to make an impact in caregiving to watch that because coming the end of [00:18:00] the summer, we will be looking for calls for submission for people who want to be partners in that and do programming, whether it's.

[00:18:07] Robyn: Policy building or advocacy or, or programming for caregivers. And we will have honorariums for those selected within that group to do that work so that we can start seeing some really impactful change.

[00:18:19] Roslyn: Fantastic. Thank you so much. We'll put all the links that you mentioned in our show notes as well so folks can go there and check all that out. I wanted to circle back to something that you said a little while [00:18:30] ago which I agree with when you said that, like, it's so easy in some ways to have gender balance in your lineups, Whether it's, you know, your artistic lineups or your speaker lineups and we've been a signatory to key change for a long time as well.

[00:18:46] Roslyn: and even like when we're talking about, having supports for caregivers you know, as, as Folk Music Ontario, as the conference, Even just by acknowledging and having it, providing some I'm going to even call it like [00:19:00] base level support for folks in that role.

[00:19:03] Roslyn: It makes a big impact. And in, and in my mind, it was easy. to do so. It didn't mean we had to do a huge overhaul. You know, we offer something like one of our most basic, we do try to provide childcare and that's a little bit more complicated, also very doable. But the, you know, one of the most basic ones that we had was that if you are a caregiver and you you need to bring somebody with you, you know, we'll offer you a badge. Simple, it's no, sweat off of our backs to do [00:19:30] it. And it was such a simple initiative to help support folks that were taking care of other, an elder or somebody else in their family or, or community or their children. And I think that, I don't think I'm asking a question.

[00:19:42] Roslyn: I think I'm just espousing now, but I think, but the interesting thing to me was that it was just having the, the mindset to be able to acknowledge that this is something that's helpful. And I hope that folks, maybe with this, this, especially with this new initiative with, with balancing act or something that, you know, folks are able to keep in [00:20:00] mind and, and keep at the, at the forefront of their, programming where they're trying to figure out ways to make it more accessible that there are a lot of options of different ways to make it accessible for, for folks that are caregivers.

[00:20:10] Robyn: absolutely right. think, you know, the work that, that Folk Music Ontario does and, providing those, honestly, just, you know, I've been talking to other organizations after you had shared the information of what you were doing and say, do you know that, FMO is doing this?

[00:20:24] Robyn: Like consider this because a lot of these things are easy and I think a lot of organizations look at it immediately [00:20:30] as daunting and don't want to touch it because they don't have the resources, they don't have the time and I agree. I mean these are, these are all elements that really aren't fundable.

[00:20:38] Robyn: They don't fit in that package that we're used to programming and so if you're going, oh we're going to do, we're going to bring a care provider in, well you can't necessarily put that into your grant funding. You know, I get, I get that there are things that are insurmountable right now.

[00:20:51] Robyn: But there's work to be done to fix that. And there's, and I think that, you know, when we put caregiver. As an option right alongside your like people with [00:21:00] disabilities and, all the different things that we want to know about you so we know how to provide the best support for you.

[00:21:05] Robyn: When we added caregiver into that, and that was in our member survey this year, I literally had people reaching out, thanking me just for putting it in there and that's all we had done at that point. We had, you know, obviously plans to do more, but it allows us to know who we're serving and people felt seen.

[00:21:19] Robyn: and felt recognized that this wasn't something they needed to hide. It wasn't something that they needed to suck up and go, this is part of my life, but it's not something that people want to know about. It's a start. And, [00:21:30] and we literally had people saying, thank you for asking. I feel seen. and I think that you know, Breakout West provides a care room for children.

[00:21:38] Robyn: People bringing their children and what we learned in the year we were in Calgary. So a few years ago, my last year there was that we provided that space and let people know about it. But we had, I think half a dozen people bringing their children. Most of them did in the end, bring a caregiver with them.

[00:21:54] Robyn: We didn't think about doing the passes for caregiver, but that is noted. And that was great. but In [00:22:00] seeing that others would say, well, I didn't know I could now I do. And you might get a speaker that you really want to speak or an artist. You really want to play that is balancing how they get their children taken care of when they're away.

[00:22:13] Robyn: And if they can bring their baby with them and know that while they're performing, they're taken care of safely, that's going to increase the level of your programming. And that's going to, increase the level of people's comfort while they're there. They're not going to be running out of conference panels to call home if they know they have that support.

[00:22:29] Robyn: and there's a lot of [00:22:30] different ways to provide that support. And I think there's also a lot of different barriers and reasons to not provide that. But I think just diving in and seeing what you can do and asking what people want. Because it might be, I need to leave my children at home, but I need an extra couple hundred dollars to pay for additional child support while I'm there.

[00:22:48] Robyn: That's not ridiculous to ask. And that's easy for you to provide most of the time. And it might be, okay, I'm going to your event for two or three days and I need, to help pay for [00:23:00] childcare. That's okay. That's doable, right? We did that for summit last year and most of the time the ask was a hundred dollars.

[00:23:06] Robyn: and that's so easy for us to provide to know that we're then going to get your really important voice on a panel. and so I, I mean, I think there's a lot of things like that and, and often the, barrier for companies providing it is not that they don't want to, it's that they don't know where to start.

[00:23:20] Robyn: and so we hope that looking at the best, the scenarios that are happening already, like what Folk Music Ontario is doing, like what Key Change is doing, we can bring that all [00:23:30] together create a best practices and ideas and options so that it is, Easier for people to go for companies to go, okay, I can start with this.

[00:23:38] Robyn: This is manageable. And I think as you start with

[00:23:41] Robyn: that, people are going to go, oh, they, they're trying and they're going to understand, oh, they can't do this, but they're doing this. and it's, it's all about supporting

[00:23:49] Roslyn: And then I wanted to, like, look at this side of it as well with in regards to programming. you mentioned the directory. Certainly, I think that. when I say that, you know, one of our jobs [00:24:00] as a conference and a conference is about discovery of artists and, and I know Breakout West is on the part of Key Change as well and other, other, you know, Canadian conferences is that, you know, we are providing a gender diverse.

[00:24:13] Roslyn: Showcase lineup of artists that are so bookable for you. Are you following some of those? We had, and Secret Frequency was I think was kind of diving into some of the Canadian festivals when they were active. in terms of gender parity and, and lineups, you seeing any, [00:24:30] shifts right now?

[00:24:31] Roslyn: Or, do you have recommendations for folks who are booking on how they can see more, more gender parity in their lineups?

[00:24:38] Robyn: I mean, generally speaking, some events that have been providing parent parody in their lineups. And I applaud all of those that several went backwards through COVID and in the last few years we have seen some decline in the work that was being done. And that's, you know, greatly post COVID and that's greatly for profit festivals.

[00:24:57] Robyn: And I'm not [00:25:00] trying to pinpoint anyone because some are doing really great work. Others, you know, I have some barriers and some challenges with that. And I think that some of those challenges are real. You know, the obvious answer when you see a festival that's not balanced is to attack the programmers if it's something that they don't think about or don't care about.

[00:25:19] Robyn: You know, I spent several years as a talent buyer and I know that sometimes it's actually a challenge. It means you have to work harder. It means you have to take chances. It means you have to take [00:25:30] risks. I think that those risks and challenges are worth it a hundred percent, but we have to look this, this brings me to, you know, the recent study we did on equity and radio and.

[00:25:43] Robyn: You know, speaking recently with the programmer for Boots and Hearts Festival who genuinely, genuinely has their heart in the right place and wants to have a paired lineup, wants to have more women and gender diverse folks in their lineup, but also has to pay for their programming.

[00:25:58] Robyn: And [00:26:00] so taking those risks can be scary. And when we look at what defines, especially in, in some genres more than others, and, and I take this as an example because it's country, what dictates what's going to sell tickets is actually still heavily on radio. And if radio isn't paired, and they're putting out, you know, they're really raising four Canadian country artists, for example, to the top of the charts.

[00:26:24] Robyn: And I'm not talking about a specific four, I'm throwing out a number, but those four are going to be very busy. And they're going to be [00:26:30] playing the festivals they can, they're going to be doing successful touring, they're going to be doing a lot of things. And then when it comes to, you know, the festivals that don't get them, are taking a risk on artists who aren't top of the country, right?

[00:26:43] Robyn: And so it's really changed that needs to happen at a number of different levels of our industry. It needs to happen with programming, with radio programming, with label signings, with development of talent. all these areas. And so for sustainable change and to really see balanced [00:27:00] lineups everywhere, we need all of these areas to work together.

[00:27:03] Robyn: we need major labels to promote a balanced lineup of new music to radio. We need radio to pick up that balanced lineup. We need testing systems from radio to, be fixed so that they are, really a lot like, looking at their given audience to take chances on new music.

[00:27:22] Robyn: They're not just playing the new female artist at midnight. So that when their testing system happens, people are like, I've never heard [00:27:30] this. And then it doesn't get held and kept into their recurrent and then gold programming. So it's a lot of different areas. In going through this radio study, I will say that our researcher, Dr.

[00:27:41] Robyn: Watson was so in tune with how things have been going for a long time. And I was less so and so found it shocking and really depressing at times. The amount of work that needs to be done to fix it. And I think even if everybody's heart is in the right place, we need to take risks and challenges [00:28:00] and, and just make some change.

[00:28:01] Robyn: And so, it's a lot of different areas that lead to that. And you're absolutely right. It's festivals like Folk Music Ontario and Breakout West and CMW that, are programming new artists. that are very bookable, that are very promotable, that are, developing, that are doing a lot of the work on their own because many of them don't have their management and agency teams in place yet.

[00:28:20] Robyn: And they're keen to do that work. and we need companies to take a chance on them and, and promote them and get them up to those levels. and listeners to be ready for [00:28:30] new music. And it's just the whole ecosystem, right? Which can seem incredibly daunting. and will take a lot of time to fix, but, it is possible and it is something that we can do.

[00:28:42] Robyn: We just need to do it and not be scared of those risks.

[00:28:46] Roslyn: Yeah, it's a great perspective to have. So the responsibility falls on the full, music industry ecosystem to make this change. we'll definitely link to the, Share the Air report because it's a fascinating, I, I agree, [00:29:00] depressing, but it's a really, really interesting read and it was really surprising to me who was like, I mean, also this didn't include folk, but as somebody, I think, I think was adult contemporary or something like that, that's pretty Closely related in terms of genre and even, the genres that were kind of folk adjacent, you know, there was still a lot of work, a lot of catching up to do to get anywhere near gender parody and on the radio.

[00:29:24] Roslyn: When you're doing these, reports, like it's, it's such a, valuable tool and [00:29:30] information now that we have, that we have this so when we're talking about improving the overall ecosystem and finding more parity in the overall ecosystem in order to make change in something like radio or festival programming.

[00:29:41] Roslyn: Is there like a next report that's going to come out that's going to peel back another layer? Like, you know, are there some actionable things that we can do or places that we can look to kind of support the ecosystem as a whole to get us to the next

[00:29:54] Robyn: Yeah. I mean, my hope is that the next report is going to show what change we've done. [00:30:00] So I would say that the actionable pieces are, there's nine recommendations within that study. And some of them are big, some of them are daunting, but some of them are very easy. And so even things like you know, we're working with those who have influence within radio to support.

[00:30:18] Robyn: adding more parody into those gold playlists. You're right, folk was not included because the six areas that we used are the six recognized formats for Canadian radio. And when we look [00:30:30] even at like U. S. radio, there are other formats that aren't included here. there was nothing like rap, hip hop and, R and B because they just, the format is, doesn't exist in Canada.

[00:30:39] Robyn: So they get rolled into other formats. You write that are adjacent, but there's some pieces within that recommendations within that, that are actually quite easy to do. And so, making requests, requesting your, a lot of them are things radio needs to do. There are things that labels need to do, but requesting your favorite artists going in and, where there's opportunity to be part of a test group [00:31:00] and support the music that isn't being heard all the time. There's a lot of different pieces within that. So I encourage everyone to do take a look at that. It's you know, even in, in programming on stages, we're seeing a lot of allied groups like Arkells, for example, will go and they will not play a show that isn't balanced.

[00:31:17] Robyn: And these are the things that artists can go in and make an influence on if you're asked to play a show that is all white men, or that is, you know, anything like that. And I'm not attacking men, but I mean, [00:31:30] we want to see all those voices on stage. And if you say, yes, I'm very interested in the show, but I'd like to see more diversity in the lineup before I sign on.

[00:31:38] Robyn: And if the venue wants you, which they do, they've already put an offer in front of you, you have power in that. You have a platform to say, I also want to see these other voices represented. You know, and that's in programming, but not so much radio, but there's, there's a lot of things like that, that are really easy to do.

[00:31:56] Robyn: that we can all do from our own platform as an artist, you have [00:32:00] A great platform, no matter what level of artists you are, that you can include these things right in your riders. You can include them in your communication. And, when you get, you know, a booking say, Hey, I'd love to do this booking, I really want to do your event.

[00:32:14] Robyn: I also want to see an artist of color, or I also want to see bi, a gender diverse artist. Here's some suggestions. And so I think that there's a lot of things we can do to just make everyone know this is important to [00:32:30] all of us. And the more people see that it's important, the more they're going to realize it's less daunting.

[00:32:34] Robyn: You know, a lot of the time those barriers are created because people are scared of losing a sponsor or just changing something without knowing how their audience is going to feel about it. If you're an audience member, when you get those, how was the show? And you say, Hey, the show was really great.

[00:32:50] Robyn: Next year, I'd love to see more park artists on it. People are going to see that and go, Oh, Hey, they're still going to come if we do this. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of things we can do from our own place and [00:33:00] every role that you have in music, whether it's industry or as an artist or as a fan, you have power in that.

[00:33:06] Roslyn: So, and then I'm hoping that, you know, we were doing a mini series as part of this podcast on radio. And I'm really hoping that we can have an episode coming up that, That dives a little deeper into the Share the Air report because, you know, on top of I'm sure everybody's going to go and read it right now but, you know, to supplement that, I yeah, I think it's just such an important [00:33:30] conversation to bring to the, forefront and Looking forward to, to dive in a little deeper into that. Robyn, we talked a little bit about the newsletter and, and membership. How else can folks find you online, in person, out in the world? How can they connect with Women in Music

[00:33:47] Robyn: So we are online at women in music. ca. And all of our socials are women in music Canada. So Instagram and Facebook are our main ones. and also I will say anyone who has ideas, [00:34:00] thoughts, or just wants to chat can always reach out to info at Or Robyn with a Y at women in music dot C A. We have a small team, but make sure that we're here for the audience.

[00:34:11] Robyn: And like I said, we're here to support our membership and those who aren't members yet whether they are women, gender diverse folks or allies. and we just want to see change made and and work towards an industry that's more acceptable and comfortable and uplifting to everyone.

[00:34:27] Roslyn: Well, thanks so much, Robyn. It's it's been such a [00:34:30] pleasure to talk to you and I hope we see each other again soon.

[00:34:33] Robyn: Excellent. Thank you so much, Rosalyn, and thank you for the work you're doing as well. Folk Music Ontario is an incredible event that I know I missed last year because I was sick, but I will get out to and I love being part of this.

Credits
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[00:34:49] Rosalyn: That's all for this episode, friends. The ReFolkUs Podcast is brought to you by Folk Music Ontario. Find out more by heading to folkmusicontario.org/refolkus. That's R-E-F-O-L-K-U-S. The podcast is produced by Kayla Nezon and Rosalyn Dennett and mixed by Jordan Moore at The Pod Cabin. The opening theme is by King Cardiac, and the artwork is by Jaymie Karn.