Demystifying Music Management with Amie Therrien

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to [00:00:30] ReFolkUs. Today we're speaking with Amie Therrien, as the Executive Director of Music Managers Forum Canada, otherwise referred to as MMF Canada, and leads the team that supports managers and self managed artists with professional development, mentorship and networking opportunities, as well as advocating on their behalf to the government and the community at large.

[00:00:49] Rosalyn: Prior to MMF Canada, Amie was the owner of Balsam Pier a music and artist management and development company, where she worked primarily with folk roots and Americana artists. [00:01:00] She's worked for Coalition Music and Folk Alliance International, has served on the boards of Folk Music, Ontario and MMF Canada, and is an alumni of the Artist Manager Program with Canada's music incubator.

[00:01:12] Rosalyn: Amie is a Metis woman based in Toronto, a part-time runner, kayaker, a meditator, a beating artist, and a recovering civil engineer. Welcome, Amy. How are you doing?

[00:01:22] Amie: Hi, Rosalyn. Thank you. I'm doing well. How are you? I'm doing

[00:01:25] Rosalyn: doing well. It's great to see you. As mentioned in your [00:01:30] bio, you're a former board member of Folk Music Ontario, and it's always nice to have board members here on the podcast. I'm used to chatting with you every day, almost, you know, every once in a while. So what a nice excuse, to reconnect.

[00:01:44] Rosalyn: Thank you.

[00:01:44] Amie: Absolutely. Thanks for having me. It's always nice to chat with you.

[00:01:48] Rosalyn: We're talking about management today, something you know about very well. and I'm wondering what drew you into management, you know, at the kind of drop the mic at the end of your bio saying that you were [00:02:00] formerly a civil engineer.

[00:02:01] Rosalyn: how did you make that transition or what was interesting to you about artist management that made you do it, what I would consider pretty much made your career change?

[00:02:09] Amie: Yeah, that's a good question. So I studied engineering, and I thought, well, it probably makes sense to get a job as an engineer. So I did that and. I didn't love it, but I stuck with it. And then I went back to school and got my master's in civil engineering, because that's what you do when [00:02:30] you're not in love with something.

[00:02:31] Amie: you double down. I went back. I kept trying. I tried different departments and different companies. And I just never really found the place That excited me. And I was always a fan of music. I knew zero about the industry. But I bought albums, went to concerts and a friend who was managing a band at the time, Perhaps had enough of me complaining about my [00:03:00] engineering job and suggested that with the skills I had, management would be a good path in the music industry. And I just said, okay, because I didn't really know what it meant. but I figured I'd give it a shot.

[00:03:14] Amie: So one of the first things I did was Harris Institute for the Arts here in Toronto. I don't know if they have this anymore, but at the time they had, weekend, I guess, professional development courses. So I took the first one called the music industry, and then [00:03:30] I took the next one called, artist management.

[00:03:32] Amie: And so all of those things that were talked about blew my mind. Cause I had no idea at the time what a label was. Like I knew there was a logo on the back of an album when I bought it. But I didn't know what they did. And so we went through, you know, these are all the components of the industry and this is what they do.

[00:03:46] Amie: And I was like writing notes furiously. and my connection to FMO actually is related to that. because again, I knew nothing about the industry. I didn't know any industry organizations, didn't know about conferences as a fan. That wasn't something [00:04:00] that was on my radar. And, to take these. courses, you could get a discount if you were a member of one of the following organizations.

[00:04:09] Amie: So, I looked at every organization and what their membership fee was. And FMOs was the cheapest,

[00:04:16] Amie: So I became a member, and got my more than membership cost discount on the course. And then that was a time when folk prints was, in print. And so I was getting these magazines, and I had started working [00:04:30] with an artist who was in the folk realm.

[00:04:32] Amie: And I was like, huh, so there's this, there's this, organization I get this stuff from and there's a conference and it's a folk conference in Ottawa. Like, I guess, should we all go? And so that was, how I heard of FMO and why I started to get involved.

[00:04:48] Rosalyn: Wow. That's so interesting. what was it like, I guess, coming into that world from the background you had previously? Because just from what I know about you, you have an [00:05:00] incredible administrative brain, I will say. I can see the engineer's wills that are still left over and they're turning when you're looking at numbers and such.

[00:05:08] Rosalyn: Did you find that having that skill set kind of set you up for success and were there things that you kind of still, Needed to learn, like, were there skills that you had to build up as you entered into starting to work with artists?

[00:05:22] Amie: I mean, there's still skills I'm constantly working on, right? Like just kind of people skills, communication skills. And, I don't know that [00:05:30] I could say that like, oh, I really had to beef that up when I started working in music and now I've done it. It's like, all that stuff still feels like an ongoing, learning experience to just be a better communicator, and it's not necessarily something I didn't use and like, it's just life.

[00:05:45] Amie: I mean, something that when I would try to explain my job as a manager to people not in the industry, especially my old, or my first engineering boss, when I met up with him after I had quit engineering, I said, okay, so, [00:06:00] because every time you say you're a manager, people say, oh, so you get gigs for artists.

[00:06:05] Amie: No, that's what an agent does. And it's like, okay, well, what do you do? so I told him that it's like, I'm a project manager. So I'm just, I'm doing all the things. Most of my days are maybe on the phone, in meetings, or typing emails. I don't know. Like, it's hard to say, Oh, this is what my day looks like. Right.

[00:06:22] Amie: It's like, you get that. Cause you're a project manager in engineering. What do you do all day? Like, you're in meetings, you're answering emails, you're filling out reports, you're, talking [00:06:30] to your direct reports. And so, that's what I'm doing, but my project isn't an infrastructure project, or a bridge, or a building.

[00:06:38] Amie: My project is an artist's career. Right. So I guess there's a little bit of difference in that working in engineering. I'm not necessarily like, what are your dreams and goals, right? It's just like, hey, design this thing, get it done. We need drawings for the city to approve. whereas, you know, with artists, obviously the project's a bit different and we might be helping like, okay, what do you want to achieve?

[00:06:58] Amie: How can we get there? Like, [00:07:00] let's make this happen. So. I don't know. I guess I kind of am great at going off topic and down different roads. I was like, wait, the question was what skills did you have to build up? But, yeah, I mean, that's ongoing skills building. It feels like always learning.

[00:07:15] Rosalyn: I guess, you know, people come to management in all different ways. I feel like, you know, for, for you, you know, you made a conscious choice to go into it, to learn more about it and it interested you. So you, you went into it. there are definitely folks.

[00:07:28] Rosalyn: who, have stories where [00:07:30] they kind of ended up being a manager, either through like, you know, my best friend has a band, they need somebody to help them out, my mom's gonna manage me or, maybe they're in the band and they become, a, self managed artist.

[00:07:42] Rosalyn: For folks who, Maybe it wasn't a conscious choice, but by default kind of fell into management. What can that journey be like? And are there resources that you would suggest for folks that kind of find themselves there, but could use some support maybe in, fleshing out [00:08:00] their skillset.

[00:08:00] Amie: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it's true no matter how you get into management, really that, those resources are going to be useful. And certainly, I think you're right that more and more people that I talk to have gotten into it, have fallen into it. Managing a friend or relative or whatnot.

[00:08:19] Amie: So, you know, obviously, or maybe not obviously, but obvious to me is MMF, Music Managers Forum has tons of resources for managers at all levels. So that's our [00:08:30] purpose, as a manager, I find, I mean, maybe this is just learning in general, but like, don't know what you don't know. So at the beginning, you're furiously trying to learn things and you're, you're doing a thing. And you're like, cool, okay. Like we've got a checklist and we did all of that for this album release.

[00:08:45] Amie: And then like, the fifth album released down the line, somehow the project was much bigger because we had learned a lot more and we knew a lot more so there's more work. And so resources. In my journey, a lot of times were conferences just [00:09:00] continuing to show up, going to the panels, listening to people who had done these things before me speak and then another very important resource were my colleagues.

[00:09:09] Amie: And so meeting other managers who kind of understand what I'm going through and the challenges that I'm seeing, like I could share them with my friends. And family and they might be like, Oh, yeah, that sounds tough. But they wouldn't really understand. And so it was really crucial, I found, for my journey to kind of build this network of [00:09:30] fellow kind of independent managers.

[00:09:32] Amie: At some point I had like a little secret Facebook group when that was cool, I guess, back in the day. So that, You know, we had kind of a group of trusted people that we could say, I just got this contract. I don't know if it makes sense. Has anyone seen this before? Or like, do you have a contact for such and such?

[00:09:46] Amie: And so I came to MMF just over five years ago. I think kind of with that mindset. And so, you read out all those lovely things in my bio that MMF does. But I think the core of it is building a community, [00:10:00] a supportive community. And so, you know, resources. That we have that help do that are having networking events online and in person so people can participate you know, even if they're not living in a city center or at an event that we're hosting a networking meetup and then we've also In our member portal we've got hundreds of videos that are recordings of our past webinars on topics all across the world industry and we've also got a number of custom templates and [00:10:30] documents and sort of how to kind of things that folks can download and use as well as custom sort of short videos.

[00:10:38] Amie: So if you're interested in a topic and you want to just like zoom in on this one question, you can go in and watch this, you know, two minute video and be like, Oh, now I understand what that is. Thanks. So, You know, there's a lot of, things there, and you know, you can Google anything for free on the internet.

[00:10:53] Amie: There's tons of info out there. But hopefully some of the stuff that we've curated helps you. You know, know that [00:11:00] it's maybe reputable info and also, you know, not wading through a bunch of stuff that's out there, but I still also recommend sure google is your friend too or bing or Ask jeeves.

[00:11:10] Amie: I don't know whatever you like to use

[00:11:12] Rosalyn: great. So after you had gone through a couple of different professional development training, how did you choose what artists you wanted to? work with. And you don't have to like give specifics about who they were, but even just in generic terms, what helped you make [00:11:30] decisions for who to sign as your clients.

[00:11:32] Amie: I mean a number of things I guess, and probably common to many managers you know, you'll find a lot of people saying it can be akin to like a romantic relationship in a sense. It's not necessarily, I mean it could be, just sort of like work for hire but usually it's a much more intimate relationship, so it's not just kind of like, oh yeah, cool, you want to work with me?

[00:11:52] Amie: All right, let's, let's work together. It's sometimes a period like, you know, one artist that I worked with, we had kind of talked [00:12:00] for years with no necessary path of like working together, but we just kind of kept meeting up at different events and I like their music and, we kind of just got to know each other and we're like, you know what, I think that I could maybe help you and, you know, we seem to, to get along and work well together.

[00:12:16] Amie: So like, let's give it a shot. Actually, engineering sort of helped me. Find another band because someone in the band was an engineer and we worked at the same company But at different offices, so we were kind of like, how do we know each [00:12:30] other? And it was just like oh that connection of You know, we've got these day jobs, but we want to have these other jobs as well in the music industry and you know, if you want someone to support you working On the business side then, you know take a chance on me because I can't really know as a performer songwriter You can practice songwriting on your own.

[00:12:50] Amie: You can practice playing your instrument. You can practice singing, you can practice producing. But it's sort of hard to be like, Hey, I'll see you in a bit. I'm just going to go home and practice music management. So I'm ready. [00:13:00] Right? Like you kind of do it by working with someone. So, you know, you'd look for, yes, someone who's music you love because part of my job is to sort of sell that to the world and I, or I want to be passionate about it. It's not necessarily just like cold, hard sales type of thing. And then, yeah, someone I get along with and like, because I'm going to be putting blood, sweat, and tears into growing their career Right?

[00:13:26] Amie: So I really want to believe in what they do and feel aligned. And [00:13:30] then, yeah, just communicating and having aligned or complementary ways of working and communicating.

[00:13:36] Rosalyn: so once you find that, Bark with a artist and you know, you know that you want to work together I'll phrase it in this way that I hope I will immediately get shut down But do I just start working for them and see what happens or is there like an agreement that should be?

[00:13:54] Rosalyn: how do you formalize that relationship?

[00:13:56] Amie: I mean, however you want to. [00:14:00] That's the thing, right? There's no real rules about even what managers necessarily do, or how they work, or how they charge. I mean, there'll be some people who will tell you this is the only way. But I think it's whatever works for your partnership. So, you know, a number of people probably are just an informal handshake agreement and trying it out.

[00:14:22] Amie: Some people a little more formally might kind of date for a bit first and maybe they'll say, okay, let's do a three month or six month trial [00:14:30] run. And, or they might just say, let's go all in, but we'll revisit it in a year and see how it's working. So it really depends. before I moved into working at MNF Canada, I didn't necessarily have a specific intake I used for every artist.

[00:14:46] Amie: But certainly even if you don't go the route of like an official contract, maybe drawn up by a lawyer, That still can be a mighty fine idea, but at the very least, I think it's useful to have, like, a deal memo, so even if it's [00:15:00] just an email saying, okay, you agree to do this, this, and this, and I agree to do this, this, and this, and, you know, this is how compensation is, is gonna work but again, it's a relationship, and so there's got to be trust And respect there.

[00:15:16] Amie: And so if something doesn't work, even in your formal agreement in my mind, for it to be a functioning relationship, you should be able to say, Hey, this isn't working. Can we have a conversation about it? Instead of just like, I don't care. This [00:15:30] is what our agreement was. And, you know, we're not budgeting.

[00:15:32] Amie: Like, I think that's all sort of part of it, but yeah, I mean, I guess just again, the same as sort of romantic relationships and like the legal contract of marriage and the dissolution of that in a divorce. You know, just because you have a marriage contract doesn't mean it's like, well, too bad you're here until we both die, right?

[00:15:52] Amie: Like there's still opportunity to converse and change the agreement.

[00:15:57] Rosalyn: So can we talk a little bit about the different [00:16:00] types of relationships then and the different types of agreements that people can be in? Like what are some kind of abstract that, managers could have with artists in terms of like the, the financial and like working relationship.

[00:16:13] Amie: Yeah, well, I mean, like I said, I there's not one size fits all there's probably infinite ways of doing things but some of the common ones i've seen the sort of traditional artists and manager model is commission so the manager supports the [00:16:30] artists helps them grow their business helps them Achieve their goals and then they get paid percentage of the income that the artist brings in.

[00:16:39] Amie: So, often it's been 15 to 20 percent of the artist's revenue but then there's also details that are different in every relationship within that about, are you commissioning on the gross amount that the artist's bringing in? Are you commissioning on the net amount once they've paid their expenses?

[00:16:58] Amie: Is it a mix of [00:17:00] both? Sometimes you'll see maybe on show income, it might be gross, but then perhaps on some merch it might be net so there is sort of. Any which way that makes sense for that partnership, but commission is one way. Some folks I haven't ever done, but I've been hearing more and more of a profit share.

[00:17:20] Amie: Agreement where the manager is a financial partner and investor, and then they share, you know, in the growth and the [00:17:30] profits of things. And again, there'd be multiple ways to sort of negotiate and set up what that agreement looks like, whether that's actual monetary input from the manager, or whether maybe it's like their services.

[00:17:42] Amie: are considered the buy in and then there are also folks who do maybe monthly fees or a monthly kind of retainer, and some people even do that as a flat fee versus a commission, so that, you know, as a manager and an artist, you're working all the [00:18:00] time, but you might not, like, if the artist is in the studio there might not be as much revenue coming in as when they're say touring on the road.

[00:18:07] Amie: So then some folks might elect to say okay, this is the base payment for the manager every month, but if we have really good months then maybe they get a little more based on a percentage. And then there are also arrangements where maybe you're, you're not fully in a manager artist agreement, and maybe it's more of a consulting and guiding [00:18:30] agreement, or it might be project based.

[00:18:31] Amie: So a manager agreement. Could come in and if an artist says, you know, I would really just love some support going through my album release then maybe they agree to just do that or even just less involved consulting. It could be that you, you know, you, the artists works with that manager and they meet up once a week or they once a month, right?

[00:18:50] Amie: So they develop a plan together and then it's sort of an accountability partner you know, as the artist progresses through, but they're maybe doing the bulk of the work themselves, but they've got the [00:19:00] manager to provide some guidance and bounce ideas off of. So. And I'm sure there are other arrangements that I'm not even aware of.

[00:19:07] Rosalyn: So then I'm wondering, as you mentioned before, the manager isn't necessarily booking gigs. The agent does that. And there, you know, there are all sorts of different types of roles in the industry that were, working directly with the artists and also that the artists are taking on themselves.

[00:19:20] Rosalyn: So, I mean, I asked this question, understanding that every relationship is different and they're all unique. But, you know, when we're, drawing some boundaries, let's say into, what [00:19:30] exactly a manager does and, and you know, trying to define Those roles or, or even just like think of a list of services that a manager could provide when starting to work with an artist.

[00:19:41] Rosalyn: I'm wondering if we can go through some of those services, I would say in general, because we know that we can always pile on more or take out some. But in general, what, what we usually find then a manager is, providing for the artist when beginning their relationship.

[00:19:54] Amie: So the 30, 000 foot view is like every [00:20:00] aspect of their career and the industry. But, likely, and maybe there'll be some managers who will disagree, but nobody knows everything. And so, managers will often be directed by their artists, or influenced by their artists, or by their interest as a manager.

[00:20:18] Amie: maybe grow and be more specialized in certain areas. So, We've got a list of expected competencies for managers. It lists everything, and I'll go through some of them [00:20:30] in a sec, but it lists everything. But the intention is not like, well, if you don't know, if you're not an expert in every one of these things, then you're not a good manager.

[00:20:37] Amie: It just means you need to be aware of all the aspects, and maybe you need some self awareness about what you're interested in, what you're good at, what you want to learn more about, and what services you want to provide. And then in those other areas, you're Those are maybe places where perhaps the artist has interest in some of those areas and or you're hiring Someone to help also with Like you said, you know, there are other team [00:21:00] members who will do things like booking shows or maybe doing or digital marketing, but also especially with independent artists and independent managers, I booked shows for a lot of my artists because they didn't have an agent and You know, we sometimes would split it where it's like, oh, you know what?

[00:21:16] Amie: Why don't you? Book the tour and then i'll book some of the local stuff or like i'll do the incoming requests and handle those and you do the outgoing requests, you know, so If there's not a whole team, like the artist and the manager sort of have to do [00:21:30] everything that's needed. And so that might be doing our own digital marketing, you know, doing our own PR doing our own, I don't know if people do this anymore, but like mailing CDs to radio stations and you know, following up there.

[00:21:44] Amie: I think probably a central job would always be to be the artist's partner and like strategic. thinker, like helping you know, to create a plan and making sure we're implementing that plan. I mean, to me, that's sort of the [00:22:00] core job of a manager and not really like something you would source out.

[00:22:03] Amie: Maybe you would bring in a team to kind of help you see some blind spots when you're building a plan. But ultimately if you, I would think if you hire someone to come in and really help that aspect, then they would. Be the manager for the most part. But yeah, some of the services, I guess, things I mentioned that you like, they might book shows some, maybe one at all.

[00:22:21] Amie: It's also about you know, sort of more cloudier, like bigger picture things of like bringing in connections, you know, and [00:22:30] if the manager has a network that's different. a bit from the artists, then they can be perhaps helping communicate what the artist is doing and what the artist is looking for, helping them to find that booking agent, and helping them to build a team with a label or with a publisher and you know, really, helping to grow or implement whatever the plan is for that artist's career, because for some it might not be to get a label, it might not be to get an agent and so really that's the core, I think, of the job, really, building a plan, helping to implement it, [00:23:00] and in between, they might be doing anything, right, they might be doing applications for funding, They might be hiring a grant writer, or the artist might do it.

[00:23:09] Amie: They might be applying for showcases at events, and accompanying the artist and supporting them while they showcase. So export might be an area that some managers will really be interested in, working in, and others might not, and might be really focusing on domestic publishing. Or others that are maybe heavily leaning towards sync placements and growing an [00:23:30] artist's activity there.

[00:23:31] Amie: And then again, you'll probably have other managers who are like, that's not a part of the industry I specialize in. And maybe they will work with artists who are also aren't necessarily interested in that. And, or they'll work to find them a publisher or a sync agent or something like that.

[00:23:44] Rosalyn: what would you say are some of the challenges that managers face in the industry?

[00:23:52] Amie: I think similar to, Most other folks in the industry like financial stability, right? Because [00:24:00] managers are, as we talked about earlier, often relying on a portion, a percentage of what artists make. And, if you talk to artists I'm sure there are a lot of them that say, You know, it's hard to make a living.

[00:24:13] Amie: So I think that that's probably, you know, the main challenge and, or the challenges really echo what artists challenges would be right. Like getting your artists known, getting them gigs, getting them financially rewarding opportunities. And, I mean, I don't know if [00:24:30] this is a challenge or not. But I think it's something that some folks deal with. So similar, again, probably similar to artists where if this isn't your full time gig, like if you're not making your living purely from being an artist or purely from being a manager, there's maybe that like existential crisis of like, Oh, well, am I a real manager?

[00:24:47] Amie: Because it's like, I have a full time job here, not in the industry, and I'm like, helping my friend, and it's like, well, I don't belong here or I'm not successful because I'm not able to make a living at it, and that really makes [00:25:00] me angry, because it's like, no, you, if you're working in management and helping someone, it doesn't matter that you can't make a living from it, that's a ridiculous expectation that every single person, every single artist and or manager or whatever else in the industry has to make a living from that only in order to be legit.

[00:25:20] Amie: I mean, the flip side of that too, though, is that if you don't have the time and space to, really develop something, it might be hard for it to grow. So, you know, maybe that is a [00:25:30] challenge that some managers might face is like, well, how do I balance? Having a roof over my head and, you know, having food in the fridge and supporting my family and myself with wanting to grow this career.

[00:25:43] Amie: So there's a lot of interesting paths that you can follow and that, you know, you can kind of see sort of what other people did, but I think there are a lot that are doing both, right. That like, they've kind of maybe built a company with some partners or on their own, and this is their main source of income.

[00:25:56] Amie: And then I think you'll also find a lot of people who are, you doing it in [00:26:00] conjunction with other things. And to me, part of our sort of community building vibe at MMF is like, you know what? Like everyone's welcome. Like we want to help people working in management, which are people helping to grow the music industry by supporting artists grow and reach their goals.

[00:26:18] Amie: We want to help those people to be able to do their job the best they can, and it doesn't really matter. you know, if you've been doing it for 40 years or two years, or if you've only got one band and, you know, you're a full [00:26:30] time nurse or teacher or if, you have a management company and you have a roster of 10 bands.

[00:26:36] Rosalyn: So then I'm wondering even like just from your own personal experience, like what's your favorite part? What's your, what are some of your favorite parts about being a manager?

[00:26:45] Amie: it's really rewarding to share in the successes and helping to grow and support an artist's, following their dreams and, and meeting their goals. So that's always fun. It's like, sometimes it's like, you know, like I'm a proud mama [00:27:00] or whatever. And you're like, Oh, look who's here.

[00:27:02] Amie: Like, this is so great. And you know, you guys did it. I'm so happy. And funny enough, I sometimes feel that same thing. With MMF, like if there's a, a networking event and I'm looking around saying, it's working, people are networking. That person who didn't know anyone is talking to this person. Oh, I'm so proud.

[00:27:23] Amie: So, you know, I guess, I mean, to that, it's sort of helping people build connections and providing space [00:27:30] and opportunity for people to, to flourish.
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[00:27:32] Rosalyn: So then obviously we want to, you know, we've been talking about MMF Canada. and you've been mentioning like just kind of the, wide scope of, types of managers that there are.

[00:27:44] Rosalyn: who should sign up for MMF? Like, do you have to be a certain kind of manager? can you let us know your membership is like?

[00:27:52] Amie: Yeah, thank you for asking that, because our membership is both managers and self [00:28:00] managed artists. And I mean, guess any artist, like even if you have a manager, A lot of times you're still the bus driver. You know, you're the kind of head and the direction. So if you are interested in the resources, we have to learn more about the industry.

[00:28:14] Amie: anyone is welcome. And so, yeah, we've got. Managers from all levels of the industry, I guess. So we've got, young folks, maybe still in school maybe studying music business. Folks just out of that, people who maybe [00:28:30] don't have artists. But are just looking for community looking for resources.

[00:28:34] Amie: And then also, you know, we've got managers who've been in the business for 30 plus years. And, everything in between. And so, you know, we try to again, build that community with folks at all levels. I think everybody can, you know, always learn something from anyone. Because if you're coming into this, maybe with no experience in the music industry, you still bring your perspective and knowledge from what you've [00:29:00] done in your life in the past, right?

[00:29:01] Amie: Like a lot of people, when they hear I switched from engineering to the music industry, you're like, Whoa, that's such a big change. And it's like, yeah, it kind of is, but it's not really like people are people. And you're coming in you know, so yeah, maybe I have stronger organizational skills than some folks because it was drilled into me as an engineer.

[00:29:22] Amie: And so maybe then there's some ways of doing things that I'm bringing as someone with little experience in the industry to someone in the industry who's like, Oh [00:29:30] wow, I never would have thought of, keeping track of things. That way so yeah, I feel like our community is pretty wide. We've got bylaws and legal corporation and all that kind of stuff says that we have voting members and so they need to be canadians Working in music management.

[00:29:48] Amie: And so as an artist if you're Making plans and moving your career forward Then you're working in music management. It just so happens that you're managing yourself rather than someone else's career. And then [00:30:00] we also have an associate subscription. So if there are folks that aren't Canadian or folks not working in music management, but feel like our events and our resources are useful to them, they are welcome to also sign up and access them through that path.

[00:30:16] Rosalyn: Well, thank you. And I, and we'll link to all that stuff in our show notes so that people can access those resources. Certainly MMF has an amazing newsletter and you guys are putting on just totally awesome events. It's been amazing to [00:30:30] watch how the organization's transformed with, with you at the Hellman and, You're just, you're doing such great work Amy.

[00:30:35] Rosalyn: So the forum aspect of the music managers forum really, you know, it puts a priority on, on making those, building those connections between managers. And I know that at Folk Music Ontario, you've done music managers meetups and at all sorts of events really all over the world.

[00:30:49] Rosalyn: Can you tell us a little bit about where folks can connect with one another and where these kinds of meetups. happen. Of

[00:30:55] Amie: Yeah, absolutely. So, we've built a brand called MMF [00:31:00] Connect. And so we do those networking events both online and in person. So we use a platform called Ringmo when we're online and you can see the entire room and you can see the avatars of everyone there. And then everyone's in small group conversations based on the table they're at, but you can see everyone else in the room and you can join another table and kind of just move around chatting with folks as you'd like which is kind of nice because if there's a bigger group, it's sort of hard to have A networking event in zoom with just like 30 [00:31:30] people in one room.

[00:31:30] Amie: And so we try to do those a few times a year. We also do a few of them with the people. Some of our international counterparts. So we've had a few instances of the online networking called MMF Connect North America where we've had partners MMF Mexico and MMF U. S. take part. So then there were managers and artists from across the continent.

[00:31:56] Amie: And we've also got relationships with managers, [00:32:00] organizations across the world. We're currently working with The UK and Australia. And then there's a European group. And we're doing some manager buddies programs where for people who are going to different conferences around the world.

[00:32:16] Amie: They can apply to be part of this program, and then we'll match them with folks from other countries. So they've got like a little buddy cohort that are all going to the same conference abroad. So that's sort of another connection. And then for in person we've [00:32:30] primarily been doing our networking events.

[00:32:32] Amie: In conjunction with other events. So like you mentioned, we've had meetups at Folk Music Ontario to bring managers together. We often have done them at M for Montreal, Breakout West and East Coast Music Week. We often will do them. Internationally as well. So we've been doing some export missions to bring artists and managers to new markets outside of Canada and provide them with different business meetings and, and [00:33:00] opportunities for them to make connections in that market.

[00:33:02] Amie: And so sometimes when we're at those missions, we'll maybe partner with one of our local MMF organizations to have an in person meetup, but yeah, because we're a national organization and we're a small team we're trying to work as best we can within our resources, so, moving forward, perhaps we might grow to have local folks hosting in person meetings across the country, Thank you for having me.

[00:33:25] Amie: But yeah, for right now, for the most part, they're sort of at other events. As well as [00:33:30] online,,

[00:33:30] Rosalyn: for a member or for folks who are just interested in becoming a member or want to, don't want to ask anybody at MMF Canada a question how can folks connect with one another and how, how can they reach out?

[00:33:42] Amie: So, it sounds Cheesy maybe, but I'm, I always say to folks, I'm like, we're here to help. Like, we're here to serve you. Like that's what this organization is for. And so, myself and our, our small team people can reach out to us anytime with questions. We don't. Of [00:34:00] course have all of the answers, but we can be connectors, right?

[00:34:03] Amie: We can look to maybe our board of directors or to other members that we know. And with a lot of things, I guess in life. You get out of it, which put into it, right? So it's not a case where, well, if signed up to be a member, like I should be an expert manager by the end of the year. It's like, no, you've gotta put in the time to use the resources.

[00:34:20] Amie: You've gotta reach out to us, like ask us. We're here to help, but we can't help you if we don't know you or don't know what you need. so we're, going to create the [00:34:30] spaces. We're going to create the opportunities. We're going to put things out there like our, our online resources, our online meetups, our online professional development opportunities.

[00:34:39] Amie: You know, but you've got to take advantage of them. So yeah, so we're here and, you know, we do have folks that reach out and say, Hey, I'm touring. You know, or on tour with my artist, or we're looking to grow in Japan. Like, is there anyone in the network that I should talk to there, right?

[00:34:53] Amie: And then I can start to reach out to other people in our network and ask and forward things on to them. We also have in our member [00:35:00] portal a member directory. So anyone that's signed up with a membership currently can go in and see the list of everyone else who's signed up to be a member.

[00:35:10] Amie: And so, it's on folks to really fill out their profile, but the opportunity is there for them to have. their social links, their website, a bio, it'll list the artists that they manage, the genres they work in, you know, the city and province that they're in so that way you can you know, even do your own, like if you know, Oh, I've never, my artist [00:35:30] has never been to Edmonton.

[00:35:31] Amie: We don't know anybody there. Like, I wonder if there's anyone in the MMF network and maybe I can reach out and chat with them. So you can sort it, I think by province and maybe by genre and some different things that you can find. Some people to connect with. And again, you can always come to any of our staff team for help.

[00:35:47] Amie: And we're more than happy to try and connect you to who you need.

[00:35:50] Rosalyn: Great, Amy. Well, thank you so much. This has been I think a really helpful conversation and Yeah. I'm just so glad that you took the time to chat with us [00:36:00] and I hope everyone goes and checks out the resources that you've shared and we look forward to seeing you soon.

[00:36:06] Amie: Excellent. Thanks so much. Pleasure chatting with you as always, Rosalyn.

[00:36:09]

Credits
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[00:36:15] Rosalyn: That's all for this episode, friends. The ReFolkUs Podcast is brought to you by Folk Music Ontario. Find out more by heading to folkmusicontario.org/refolkus. That's R-E-F-O-L-K-U-S. The [00:36:30] podcast is produced by Kayla Nezon and Rosalyn Dennett and mixed by Jordan Moore at The Pod Cabin. The opening theme is by King Cardiac, and the artwork is by Jaymie Karn.