Breaking Through Burnout with Dondrea Erauw

Rosalyn: [00:00:00] Hello. Welcome to ReFolkUs. Today we're joined by Dondrea Erauw.

Dondrea thank you so much for being here.

Dondrea: Thank you for having me. This is so exciting.

Rosalyn: Dondrea, your career in the music industry has taken a pretty amazing arc. You started as an artist and transitioned into working as a music supervisor. And now we find ourselves kind of coming maybe in a full circle moment of rediscovering your artistic side. Can you tell us a little bit about your, your journey in the music industry and what's led you

to this moment.

Dondrea: Yeah. I started singing at a really young age and songwriting at a young age and released. Solo music and played in a band for a while and wanted to find a way to create a career for myself in this industry outside of just touring and writing music. And I was always very obsessed with soundtracks.

That sort of led me down the rabbit hole of music supervision.

I had no idea that that was actually somebody's job to, you know, creatively find music and then also license it for TV, film, for any medium for that matter. And once I've kind of found that out, I was like, this is something I wanna do full-time.

I wanna make soundtracks and work in the television and film world. Cuz I was always really influenced by TV and film growing up. And I was obsessed with soundtracks and it became, like, a really influential thing for me in high school.

That's sort of how I found new music and discovered artists was from the shows and stuff that I used to watch growing up.

And so I was like, that's something I really want to do, is be someone who can help other people discover new music and what a cool way to go about doing it. Working in a little bit of both worlds with TV and film, working with directors and producers with studios, and then also getting to work with, you know, record labels and managers and artists.

[00:02:00]

And it just seemed like everything I sort of wanted to do all together in one place. And I found Michael Perlmutter in Toronto who runs and owns Instinct Entertainment and he needed some assistance and so I sort of integrated myself over there.

Prior to that though, I was working in music publishing, so I was like learning a lot about sync and licensing and royalties and stuff.

Rosalyn: And you were connected with Fanshawe too, right?

Dondrea: Yeah. Yeah, I went to the music industry arts program at Fanshaw. And that's sort of where I was wrapping my head around what I wanted to do. Cuz at that time I was still playing in a band and we were playing a lot of shows in Ontario. And yeah, I met a lot of really amazing people there in my year and ended up working with a lot of them later, which was amazing.

I mean, there's music industry arts people, Everywhere in Canada, working in the industry. It just goes to show it's a great program and people are really excited about trying to enter this industry and that's such a great place to go and do it. But that's sort of where I found out that music supervision was a career option or was a job that existed.

So, yeah, it's sort of where I started my journey of working in the industry. I was applying to jobs like crazy after my first year and nobody would obviously hire me even as a summer intern because I hadn't graduated yet. But I was super eager. And there's a couple teachers in our program who were.

there's maybe gonna be two or three of you that are gonna end up working in this industry, like after you graduate, fyi. So take a look at how many of you there are in this room and accept the fact that maybe two or three of you are gonna get a job. And I was like, I'm gonna be one of those people.

Rosalyn: That's incredible that you were one of those people. And how how long did you end up working at Instinct

Dondrea: I worked at Instinct for 10 years. Yeah, it was a really long time. It flew by, but it also felt like an entire lifetime all at the same time.

Rosalyn: and you got to work for some pretty incredible shows. Why don't you talk a little bit about some of the projects you worked on?

Dondrea: Yeah. I worked on a little bit of Degrassi Next Generation. When I first started at Instinct, I was a music coordinator on that. And then I moved into Degrassi, Nick's class whi, which ended up on Netflix. I also worked on a Netflix series called Spinning Out, which is like a figure skating sport drama.

And a few films as well. So I worked on a film called The Cuban directed by Sergio Nereda and the New Romantic, which was a really fun one for me, and a Canadian film called Firecrackers. So, I mean, over 10 years there's a lot of projects coming in and out, but those are some of the ones that.

We're really big for me and Beauty and the Beast on CW as well. Like that one was pretty, pretty wild

Rosalyn: born and raised in Ontario, but you're currently living in la. What[00:05:00] prompted. That move. And were you still connected with music supervision when you, when you did that move?

Dondrea: Yeah, I was very much so, very involved with instincts still. I came out here for Grammy week in 2016, and it was the first time I'd ever been to California. It was the first time I'd come to Los Angeles and. There were a lot of people I was working with for many years that hadn't met in person.

A lot of sync licensing folks and record label folks other music supervisors. I know that I just never really had met in person. So coming out here was something I really wanted to do, and when I came here, I was like, oh, no, . This feels like a place I need to be. This feels like a second home in many ways, and I love Toronto and Ontario.

I miss many things about it now that I've been in la but I think I was really ready for a change and I was kind of back and forth for a little while and decided to. Come up with a business proposal for instinct to try and set up ourselves out here in the states. Canada in general, and Toronto.

Vancouver specifically, there's a lot of filming that takes place in Canada and co-productions that happen. So US productions in the States will go up to Canada and shoot for tax break purposes, so they'll get money back basically for filming outside of their own country.

We were getting hired on a lot of those projects and we wanted to get hired on more of them.

So I think the idea of having feet on the ground here in LA and in Toronto was a really good idea. And so that was the plan. I moved out here quite quickly. I got my Visa approved and within like a month I had. Sold all my things and moved here with two suitcases, and figured it out. And it was a wild journey.

And then obviously like a year into moving here, the pandemic happened.

[00:07:00] So I mean, that's a, that's a whole chapter in itself, but

Rosalyn: When, in this when did you decide to start writing Bye Bye Burnout? Was this after you decided to leave music supervision or was that something in your head while you're still doing it,

Dondrea: No, it was not in my head at all. Nothing was in my head. except for work, honestly. I mean the journey throughout this whole process of, you know, the Bye-bye Burnout newsletter came to existence because of the journey I experienced through moving here and through the pandemic and taking a lot of time to self-reflect on how I spend my time on this earth and with people and you know, how I identify myself.what I want my mark to be. And within all of that reflection, there was a lot of resistance and I really struggled with trying to figure out who I [00:08:00] was outside of my work.

And I think the pandemic, as terrible as it was, was a total blessing in disguise for me at the same time, because it allowed me to really slow down.

And stop and feel things and process things. And in doing that, I realized that I was more burnt out than I could have ever imagined. I don't even think burnout was a word in my vocabulary. , while music supervising and working, I knew obviously what it meant. I knew what it was about. I knew that I was tired and overworked and exhausted and not really feeling.

But I don't think I identified with having burnout until the pandemic happened. And that's sort of the journey I began and went through. Okay, I don't think this is healthy for me to keep living my life like this, and this is a big part of it. And [00:09:00] who am I outside of this career? .

And that's where the journey began.I decided to leave supervision, which is still really crazy for me to say out loud. I left a career. I spent 10 years building and learning and growing and getting quite good at it because I needed it for my mental health. And that's sort of where the newsletter came to be and, and came to exist was, I know I can't be the only one feeling this and going through this.

I decided to share on social media. You know, the day I was leaving, I wasn't even going to do that. I was just gonna do this in silence, you know, like sort of just step back and let the people closest to me know that I'm not doing it anymore. But I decided against it and I said, if opening up about all of this can help one person maybe identify or they can feel less alone, then it's worth doing this. And so that's exactly what I did. I shared this [00:10:00] post that I was leaving the industry due to burnout. and I had so many people message me privately saying they're feeling the same thing.

And I'm, I'm not just talking like music supervisors, cuz that was a big part of it.But I'm talking like other artists, like managers. I had a bunch of people in our industry world messaging me being like, I think this every day. And don't know what to do with these feelings. Like, I don't know where to put it or process it. And having you share your story really made me feel like, oh, this is not just me.

Like this is on an industry-wide level. And so yeah, I was really proud that I had the guts to do that because it obviously helped a decent amount of people and that's where the Bye Bye Burnout things sort of bloomed in from a little seed to an I, you know, this little idea of like, oh, well maybe I should be talking about this more so that more people can kind of connect [00:11:00] to it in a different way, and that's where it began.

Rosalyn: I remember when you put out that post, and I remember being surprised because you know so often, In this industry we're celebrating our successes. We're putting a happy hot face out there into the world. And we're running into each other at, at celebrations and like, you know, industry events and times where, you're maybe not getting into the nitty gritty of like, you know, how are you really doing?

You know, there's a kind of a, a veneer over over folks and the way that we pre represent ourselves sometimes in the industry and So, yeah, so hearing, you know, you talk about your experience and being really open and honest about it was so amazing and, and so nice to see that progress into the newsletter where you kind of dive into some of that process of recognizing that you had this burnout and how you did that.

And I'm wondering if you can share a bit about, just the process of realizing that you were burnt out. I feel like sometimes we see there's like a fine line between success and burnout because we're trying so hard. Like you just said, we're, we're trying so hard to build up this career and stuff like being busy all the time is kind of the thing that you've been trying to do in some ways, right? And so, when did you kind of realize that, that maybe this was something else and, and something that could. a negative.

Dondrea: Wow. Well, thank you for saying all that, first of all.

Secondly, I think it's so funny because of the facade of the internet. I mean, this is also another thing I was very much going through was my relationship to social media. And I hate that. It's always like, let's, boost ourselves.Let's

show all these positive things, and that's great. We should be sharing, you know, accolades and, and really fun moments of our lives. But I also think that the really crappy parts of our lives and the things we're going through are equally as I. And the truth of it is, that I [00:13:00] was miserable, like on the outside seeing people at events or you know, talking to friends.

Like you said, you were surprised. Like a lot of people didn't know that this was something I was going through or dealing with or suffering through. And, you know, it's not something I was. Sharing with a lot of people and that's because we're human and we wanna do our best and we wanna try and do everything we can to succeed in whatever success looks like to each individual.

But I was crying every night and I was not sleeping, and I had a hormone imbalance and my health was deteriorating. And that's where things really started to change and shift for me because it wasn't just the pandemic, it wasn't just like stopping and reflecting. It was like my body was screaming at me to stop doing what I was doing, and I just kept resisting like this, this is what I'm meant to do. This is what I'm supposed to do.

Like this is how [00:14:00] we run on this hamster wheel. We can't slow down like we have to
keep going. And just that over and over for long periods of time was really starting to affect my body and my health.

And that's when I was like, okay, it's not worth losing my life or like risking my health For work, like it just isn't.

Rosalyn: At this point, you know, you're kind of immersed in this, in this world of identifying burnout, do you have tips for people who might find themselves in the same boat that you were in? How to, you know, you were talking about a lot of physical and emotional symptoms.

Can you have anything that you can share with folks of like, like red flags or, or things to look out for that might indicate that, that they're on that same track?

Dondrea: Yeah. It's gonna be different obviously, for everybody depending on the level of burnout and, and what you're doing.

But for me, the signs I noticed were like my change in personality, my [00:15:00] change in my happiness. Like I was really easily agitated and frustrated and I had a lot of anxiety, which is not something I normally dealt with.

I love being around people. I love talking to people and, and things really shifted for me where going out and talking to people was like the last thing I wanted to do. So things that I used to find joy in, I wasn't having fun doing it anymore. So it's, it's sort of, you slip into this state, I think, of a bit of depression not being able to do the things you used to do or that you used to love to do.

And I think like if you can find a way to listen to your body, if you can find a way to tap into, how it's physically. I think that was a really big one for me. as a Pisces I have a lot of emotions and a lot of feelings and I'm okay to admit that, but I'm not so great with like, checking in with my body and physically expressing how I'm f my body is feeling.[00:16:00]

I'm all head and I'm all emotional, but I can't, I have a hard time tapping into what my body's feeling and then I have a hard time expressing.

What my body's feeling. So I think listening to how your body feels in a moment. Like does it get tense?

Do you get hot? Do you get, you know, like all of these things are really important to pay attention to.And I think finding out what your triggers are is another thing cuz it's not like you deal with burnout all day, every day.

There's certain things that might trigger it to be a little bit more intense and the like, stress response is a really big part of burnout. So I'm not a psychologist so I can't like, you know, deeply get into this, but from what I've learned in therapy and what I've learned in my readings is that the fight or flight response in today's society is so high. That people actually can't come down from their stress response. So for [00:17:00] example, like dogs and cats, when they get really anxious or whatever, they can shake and they release this stress and energy. But as humans, we don't really have a way to come down from stress besides deep breathing meditation, like all of that.

And sometimes meditation and breathing doesn't work for people. Like some people can. Actually get into a space of relaxation by just breathing because their mind is too busy. So as humans in today's society, we're just stressed all the time, and we're never actually coming down from that stress. So it's just, it's like stress stacking on stress.

And so the tower just sort of keeps building until it either collapses or it's easily pushed down. And I think. It's important to make sure to take breaks and actually figure out what that release is for you, because for me it's [00:18:00] songwriting and getting into more therapy and going for walks and being in nature and like those are my things to help release my stress and anxiety.

But I think everyone's gonna have something a little bit different, but definitely like listening to your body and how it's feeling is like the number one thing that you can.

Rosalyn: I recently, like yesterday, went for some massage therapy cuz my shoulder was just so messed up. And at the end of the at the end of the time I mentioned like, do you ever do stuff on, on people's faces? Like, I feel like I've been clenching my jaw.

Dondrea: Mm-hmm.

Rosalyn: For 10 years, , I feel like I have this stress in my face.

And the therapist was really nice. Like, yeah, let me just, let me check it out. And then was like, oh no, like this is, he was like, this is like, I need an hour just to work on your job. It is so tense. Cool. So it wasn't just me. It's yeah, these physical manifestations of anxiety and stress. Are [00:19:00] so interesting because of things that we sometimes don't even Yeah. They're so hard to check in with, you know, unless you're kind of forced to, to examine it.

Dondrea: Yeah. And it's so interesting that you were holding it in your jaw. I think that's like such a place to clench, especially in the middle of the night. But everyone sort of holds it in different spaces in their body. And I find it so interesting that, you know, in today's society where. This like work hustle and like this culture of like you gotta do more than is expected, is so unhealthy for us because we're not meant to be doing that all the time, every day.

And of course our bodies are gonna react and be like, yo, what are you doing like this? This doesn't feel good. I'm gonna keep bugging you about this pain and until you do something about it and it's. It's so scary. Your health is just not worth that. I don't think it is

Rosalyn: Yeah, I [00:20:00] wonder like yeah, I, I have this feeling that and it's one of the reasons why. We created this podcast, and I, I, I feel like it's probably similar to, to why you started by, by burnout. Is that like during the pandemic, you know, we were all kind of forced to, to do that check-in in a way because we were alone with ourselves and our bodies and our, our thoughts without the, the distraction of, of going anywhere

During that time you've mentioned. You mentioned therapy in this conversation was something that you were already involved in or did you seek that out when you kind of knew you were going through the stage of burnout?

Dondrea: Yeah, I had to seek it out. I was always very pro therapy. I still am, I think everyone should go to therapy. It's like the most helpful thing to be able to talk like out. The things in your head and, and really reflect and see how you can just be kinder to yourself and then [00:21:00] also other people in your surroundings.

But I think it got to a point where the people in my life were being affected by my stresses and anxieties, and that's when I was like, this is not okay. Like, and I'm not okay. I think I tried to avoid that for a really long time.

Like I tried to pretend I was. . But I really had to just carve the time out, talk to somebody to figure out what to do with this, and understand where it was coming from and why I was feeling the way I was or acting the way I was.

And it was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do in my life. You know, my therapist wasn't like, you should quit your job. She never came right out and said that. But as we talked more and more, it was the more I realized something that I absolutely had to do, and music supervision it's still such a joy to me.I loved what I got to do and I loved the people I got to work with, and it's heartbreaking to [00:22:00] have to say goodbye to something you love for the better of your health.

And it's the journey I sort of went through of. . I can't be my intuitive self and do this job at the same time, so I have to let go of the thing that's maybe not necessarily so healthy for me, even though I love it.And that that really opened up my eyes to like, okay. This is the burnout I'm experiencing. I didn't realize I was experiencing it to the

degree that

I was, and a therapist just really helped me understand that like, oh, what are all the things you're feeling, and this is where it's coming from, and et cetera.

Rosalyn: and, and like that's a, what I would call. Incredibly brave choice, you know, that, that you were able to make, to step away from something that was such a big part of your life and your goals that you had worked so, so hard on. Was there like a [00:23:00] grieving process after that that you had to go through, or, or was it more of an immediate um, done amount

Dondrea: Yeah, no, it was definitely a mourning process. I didn't think that I was gonna experience that because I think I just needed relief and. I needed to be done with it to start feeling better. So I, in my head was like, this is gonna be the thing that really helps me break this cycle. Like this is what I need.

And it was, but I, I definitely was not prepared for the morning process as well, because it wasn't just me telling my colleagues and the people I worked with, like, okay, cool. Thank, you know, it was nice working with you, but like, I'm making this decision. , it was mourning a part of myself, like it was mourning, a younger version of myself that was super excited about soundtracks and super excited to get into this industry and a version of myself [00:24:00] that worked 10 years to get to this point. So that was honestly the hardest part. More than anything. I feel like my identity was wrapped around this career and so breaking that made me feel. I didn't know who I was anymore for a short while, , which started the process of me figuring out who am I outside of supervision and my career, which is the exciting part.

Rosalyn: It's so exciting and it's yeah, I mean that, that experience can, you know, can be, I think, applied to, you know, I think a lot of folks in, in the industry have gone through, you know, what, what you're describing, whether it's like breaking up your band and like doing something else, or, you know, when you're kind of faced with, with a big transition like that. there should be like doulas for career transition,

Dondrea: Oh my gosh, that would be amazing if that ever existed because it's so true. Like I didn't have a [00:25:00] backup plan, and so leaving a career in stability,

Not having something lined up is terrifying. Like that shift in change is taking a risk, like it's full of taking a risk and not a lot of people are capable of doing that.

Like without having something lined up, without having some sense of where you're gonna go next is really scary. But I thrive in those moments in my life, like I fully love changes when I need it. Like it was like, no, this is time. I feel it in my bones. I'm not afraid it's gonna work out. Whatever's meant to be is gonna sort of work itself out, and that's exactly what happened.

You just have to sort of like take the leap and know that the net will appear.

Rosalyn: And then, you know, you, you said like, oh, I, you know, I had to figure out who I was again, you know, without that thing. Right. But the neat thing is that inside there, you [00:26:00] rediscovered AnDondreaa, the artist, and that that connection to music was still there and you were able to kind of pick that up.

Do you wanna speak a little bit about You know, starting to play again and, and getting back into life as an.

Dondrea: Yeah, I, like I said, you know, when we first started talking, I grew up singing and songwriting and that was a thing I've always loved to do and. I Am my happiest. And I think when I started to get into supervision, my schedule and time didn't really allow for me to create in the same way I. Think that that's like the start of, probably the burnout for me is I wasn't allowing myself to carve out time to create for myself, and so that closed that door completely off for me.

So I didn't have my creative flow. I didn't have it go anywhere. It just sort of, [00:27:00] Sat in me and was stagnant for a really long time, and I don't think that that was extremely healthy for me. But I also couldn't see myself ever feeling like I had the energy to create and want to do it. Like it just, I didn't have the time or the energy to do it.

So, you know, stepping away from the career that I had built. I, thankfully, still love music. Like that's the best part is I didn't lose my love for this world and the art and creating it and listening to it.

I'm very grateful for that. Like, I'm not resentful towards the industry or, or music in general.

If anything, it just allowed me to sort of open up that door again too. my inner child and younger self cuz that's really what fed me. And I said, oh yeah, this is what feels right. Like, it's sort of one of those things that just kept gnawing at me all the time. Like, oh, you're not doing this [00:28:00] anymore, you're working in this industry now, but like, you're not really doing the thing that you love about it.

Like, you need to do that, you need to do that. And I tried a couple of times, like I co-wrote with some friends and like recorded a couple things and like a little butterfly in me was like, you know, kind of flapping its wings. And I was feeling all excited, but then that never really went anywhere and I, I couldn't put the energy and time and love into it that I wanted to.

And so now I have that space to do that. I've created that. For myself. So I'm working in an environment now where I can close my computer at the end of the day and I don't have to like to communicate or talk to anybody. This is my time now to focus on art for myself, and that's what I think I needed was to have this balance of like, work life and creativity, and I just didn't have that on the scale.

Supervision does not allow you to have a healthy work life balance, unfortunately. So I had to create that for myself. And so [00:29:00] now I'm, I'm kind of getting back into that and I'm realizing like all of this that I've experienced is like really good inspiration to write pieces and to pull from, and it feels really good to be doing it.

Rosalyn: That's so, it's inspiring. It's inspiring to hear that by creating that boundary, you know, and, and, and making those changes in your life so that you're able to. to put in some boundaries that like, that creative part of yourself has room to grow and create and, and you know that it's you know, the, oh my God, I was about to say the butterfly got its wings, but that's not a thing. that's

Dondrea: I'm the one that Sheily threw that in there. It's fine.

Rosalyn: you did. I got, I'm all up on butterflies now. What are you working on now then? Is there like a project that you know, is it, are you just playing in your living room or do you have something that you are, you're kind of focusing on and.

Dondrea: Okay. Well first, first of all, I do wanna like be totally [00:30:00] honest with my journey in, in this diving back into this pool is that , I'm, now, I'm really learning how to let go of like the inner critic in myself because working in this industry for so long and listening to so many different types of music and ultimately trying to push it to film and television, I have a little bit of Judgmental critic mindset and ego in my brain. And so right now I'm really practicing not caring about it, not caring about what the inner critic says, not caring what other people are gonna think about my music. I'm literally doing this because I need to, and it feels good. And. , I want to do it. That's my main focus, number one.It's really hard to do that , but that's the, that's the beginning of this process. And I'm also trying to set many goals for myself and write like a song a week with a couple people and like I, by, either by myself or a co-write. And I'm working with a [00:31:00] few people out here, co-writers and also producers, to open myself up into this world again and I'm trying to take my time with it. And I'm not trying to make this like my next career.

Like I'm not trying to have this be my money maker, cuz I don't want this pressure to be put on myself in a new environment. Like I'm entering this phase of I'm doing this because it feels good and I don't wanna put this pressure on myself.

To like have a press release and an album release and all this stuff. I wanna do this really organically and naturally for myself. So I'm in that phase of trying to figure out how to do it myself and, and work with a couple people to get like tips and advice and I've been recording and I wanna put music out so I'm hoping at some point this year, like I'm gonna put a single out that's almost done, and then I'll either probably continue to release singles or I'll put a demo out of some kind. [00:32:00] But there's things that I wanna incorporate like throughout those phases and steps that I've sort of been thinking about and racking in my brain that's gonna intertwine this journey I've sort of been on.

But I'm really excited about it. So good to be creating and making things again.

Rosalyn: I'm excited about it. I can't wait to, I can't wait to hear it. That's a pretty incredible, you know, full circle place to be, but inside of that too let's talk a little bit about the newsletter. So we've been printing out this newsletter. I get it coming into my inbox, Bye bye. Burnout. Was that from like, bye bye, Blackbird.

Dondrea: I was listening to Fifi Dobson for a while and bye bye. Boyfriend is like one of my favorite songs from her and I actually, I think that is probably where it came from.

Rosalyn: Okay. I just aged myself like a person from the 1920s . I'm like, I, I come and I hear like, bye bye, Blackbird. And you're like, no, this is, this is a

Dondrea: I mean Canadian icon, Fifi

Rosalyn: Canadian [00:33:00] icon, Fefe Dobson

Dondrea: Well, that's

Rosalyn: is much more

Dondrea: The irony. Yeah, the ironic thing is like the first newsletter I put out had that music video in the newsletter, and so I think that was definitely like the inspiration, now that I think about it, it feels like so long ago, since I started the first one but yeah. And the newsletter itself just adapted. I was doing a newsletter a week, and then it felt that that was like, just way too much, not only for myself, but other people. I was

Rosalyn: You can't burn yourself out talking about burnout.

Dondrea: no. So then

Rosalyn: Burnout Inception.

Dondrea: Oh my gosh, that's hilarious. And so true. Yeah, I think I, I just, I sort of. Created the boundary where I, wherever I needed to. And I think now it's sort of like once a month or, you know, bimonthly. There's still a couple of other pieces I wanna put out that I've like written down and started putting ideas together.

But [00:34:00] it's, it's mainly, from my experience as a supervisor, I've had a lot of uh, newsletters that are music supervision specific. So talking about. The, the one that really did well was uh, a real life of a music supervisor. So I break down the like, day-to-day of what a music supervisor sort of has to deal with on the inside.

And it's a lot of it, supervisors don't talk about it publicly and I was like, no, I'm gonna talk about this. I want this to be like a veil that's sort of removed. And I don't want this to be some secretive thing. Like people need to understand why music supervisors don't get back to people, why they're super busy and like, I also don't think this is healthy and music supervisors just continue to do these habits and these things and we're not.

talking about it amongst each other or helping each other through the chaos of this industry. And so I was like, this is what happens. Like this is a, how stressful it is and why it's so difficult and why it's not meant for everybody. Like it's such [00:35:00] a glorified job. There's a lot of people out there who are like, it's my dream to be a music supervisor and I'm like, okay, if you read this newsletter and you don't. slighted by it, then you'll be fine. But if there's anything in here that's triggering or sounds not fun, don't do it. don't do it. But it's also for I, I think just anyone in the industry in general, like whether you're an artist or, I think I've had other people who aren't even in music who've read it and said that they can relate to certain things about it.

It's more about how we can carve space out for ourselves. Try to find a little bit of that work life balance. It's like how can we treat ourselves with kindness and how can we

Rosalyn: I remember you did a [00:36:00] newsletter about, like, play and one, and about, uh, getting connected with nature. can you go a bit more into that in terms of like, ways to combat or deal with, the stress or how we can kind of center ourselves and, and the tools

Hm. Yeah. I can't agree more. Also, a part of me was like, In your feet in the grass as I stare out onto this icy snow covered frigid tableau outside of my window. Uh, yeah, grass sounds

Dondrea: In the summertime. You can do that in the summertime. You can do that. Maybe you can like [00:39:00] put your feet in the snow and then go to a sauna.

Rosalyn: Oh my gosh. That sounds nice. I, Not okay Dondrea the sauna option. I feel like you're, you're setting me up for failure here, Don. Uh, but yeah, there's a, you know, a crunchy walk in the snow. I think that that's a, I think that's a nice thing. Feel the snowfall in your face,

Dondrea: only nice when it's not slushy and wet, but that's How often Is that really? in Toronto? Not

Rosalyn: It's, it's all of the Yeah, but the, that's kind of an interesting thing to even think about though when talking about this, is that there is, that there is that Canadian element in certain climates that we have of like also being housebound and like that, you know, that kind of seasonal Effectiveness.

For people who don't have that option of necessarily going outside all the time, it's, uh, that kind of adds a little extra,extra challenge for me.

Reading, like you mentioned, reading that was a huge one for me [00:40:00] recently was like reconnecting with, reading. So I could put my feet in the grass in my mind.You know,

Rosalyn: Nice. Great option, great option. Um, how can people find you? How can they connect with you and, and what you're doing and, find out more about you. [00:41:00] Great, and we'll link to that in the show notes as well. Donna was so nice, so nice to chat with you. Thank you so much for, for chatting with us. Thanks for being here.

Thank you.